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Mohan Raj's avatar

As a country moves up the value chain, by focusing on hi-tech and leaving the lo-tech to other countries that still find it attractive, there is a possibility that some of the population will not be able to catch on the train. Subsidies for such left-behind industries, and social security in general, is the mechanism to provide a safety net. Unfortunately the current ruling elites see these safety nets as unnecessary handouts that is impoverishing them! And want to abolish them. People tend to forget why we live as communities in the first place.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Better still, just use that money to provide a basic minimum income. Subsidizing any industry is only providing a safety net for more millionaires and billionaires.

One need look no further than TE卐LA for an example. They were going nowhere until Obama provided a subsidy - and look what that ultimately led to.

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Mohan Raj's avatar

Accessible high quality education is a must to keep the country advanced. Investing in education is not a drain on the economy. It will naturally move the people away from these noncompetitive industries to more value-adding ones.

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Ada Fuller's avatar

Right, but red states, like my Texas, are busy starving public schools while attempting to give our school tax money to private (= Christian) schools. That plus killing the Department of Education shows us that MAGA/Trump want to create a servant/slave class!

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Ryan Collay's avatar

Yes, education can be, and too often is, indoctrination…even smart college students can be stupid at times. And very insightful at other times. The difference is diversity, resiliency, thinking, and actually creating. But in truth the human brain isn’t ripe/ready till at least 30, and understanding complexity is even older…50’s -60’s -even 70’s, and gernerativity also requires empathy and emotional maturity that is the product of life-long living and the obligation to support those youthful 40-50 year olds…to give back! And run education programs.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Absolutely. No question about that.

Nonetheless, not everybody is ready willing or able to achieve an advanced education, so we still need a basic minimum income. That would also free up those who are ready, willing and able to pursue higher education.

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Elizabeth's avatar

The Germany provides tuition free university to anyone who makes it into university up to and including a PHD. And the university does not have to be in Germany. I think this may be EU wide. We drown our students in student debt and make profits off their debt.

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NubbyShober's avatar

The Germans and many other EU countries rightly see merit-based free higher and Votech education as a very profitable investment in their own future tax bases.

But here in the US, every dollar going to educate our children is a dollar that the GOP would rather give to Elon and Jeffy to buy new yachts.

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salvora's avatar

Free university tuition is not an EU-wide policy, I can confirm. However, most EU countries subsidize university tuition, either fully or partially, sometimes universally and sometimes based on economic means. Many EU countries also offer grants to university students to cover living costs.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Betsy DeVos needs another yacht! She is connected to the predatory lending industry.

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Mohan Raj's avatar

I agree. We have created a high tech world where a 12-year high school education is mandatory to simply navigate around everything. All the regulations have made the world safe, but unfortunately have made it difficult to navigate as well. People who struggle with this need assistance. We can call that social security or a basic minimum income, in principle they are the same. Without that we will have nothing to stand on as a community.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

These days, employers demand a four year degree just to become - a janitor.

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Barbara's avatar

A high school education is barely a base for employment now. Most people need vocational school or a two year degree or more.

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Mohan Raj's avatar

A high school education doesn't pass muster for employment. What I meant was it is almost a basic necessity just to understand how the system works - to just participate in the country's socioeconomic system in a meaningful way.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Just to sweep floors and scrub sinks.

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Marge Wherley's avatar

One thing that particularly impressed me when I visited Cuba ten years ago was that their citizens had free education, up to and including medical school. And Cuban doctors donated services to other countries.

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Ryan Collay's avatar

I love the ideas of life-long, life-wide education..free choices of gaining information, skills, insights…in community! One of the great things about schools is they are not zoom! While there are a few well-constructed interactive models, the best thing about Kindergarten is the people! And this should carry on throughout one’s life…Road Scholars for all!

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Road Scholars? I've heard of Rhodes Scholars, Bill Clinton is one, but Road I haven't heard of.

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Ryan Collay's avatar

Fun travel group...they used to called something else--Elder Hostel?

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Ahhhhh, I see. Interesting.

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Jeff Luth's avatar

TE卐LA , ha good one!

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I can't claim to have originated it. I saw it somewhere and, well, had the same reaction you did. I couldn't just let it pass me by. 😜

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NubbyShober's avatar

And the Biden/Dem IRA gave Tesla a another huge pot of dough to subsidize domestic lithium-ion battery production.

Don't worry, the GOP is fully in favor of a basic minimum income. Provided you've got kids to homeschool. Who needs all those expensive public and parochial schools, when you can do it yourself at home, and pocket all the cash direct? That's right, no-strings-attached homeschooling allowances, brought to you by the party borrowing our way deeper into a black hole of red ink.

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Ryan Collay's avatar

To electric cars…

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Well yes, that's partially true - they weren't the only ones, but you know I meant it also led to MuskRat's ego expanding to infinity.

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Ryan Collay's avatar

I wish Gates would buy it and rename the company…Windows! They are okay cars, the Y mainly is well thought of and it was a good company till he stole it and the engineering…the ‘Frickin’ Truck is all Musky!

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I don't trust Gates anymore than MuskRat. And it's bad enough to have Windows on my computer. I wouldn't want to be on the highway and suddenly have a BSOD. Or have system interrupts or "antimalware system executable" suddenly go to 100% CPU time and lock up the whole system, sending me into a telephone pole or worse yet another car.

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Ryan Collay's avatar

Windows crash!? Just an unanticipated disassembly. Even jets, who actually do self fly, require on duty pilots…god I can’t wait till the Musky Bot and his minions are on the way to Mars, as we tear up their contract for food. More ‘You’re Fried!’ But till then he can be fired too.

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Dennis Allshouse's avatar

Took awhile, groked your handle

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Lou Doench's avatar

Pretty sure the Professor has the math on that one and it’s not as easy as all that.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Easy? No. Nothing worthwhile is easy. Doable? Yes, it can be done. And the Professor has the math on that too.

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Robert Honeyman's avatar

This is something Germany has been somewhat successful with their industrial policies aimed at using tax policy to help companies retain workers rather than offshore all production.

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Ada Fuller's avatar

I wonder if Germany is helping itself. I used to have an MB E-350; according to the title it was made in South Africa; in the early 2000s Germany was offshoring its big manufacturing. I have to wonder what other brands which have been synonymous with Germany, are actually made somewhere else?

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Robert Honeyman's avatar

IIRC, Germany still has a strong machine tool industry. The US doesn't. Industrial policy is likely the difference.

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Chris's avatar

Most of the time car manufacturers don't just offshore their production to reimport, but establish a global network of factories to cater for local demand, also to benefit from government incentives and avoid tariff threats.

Look at this graph from Volkswagen from 2023, they have factories all over the world.

https://annualreport2023.volkswagen-group.com/_assets/gallery/gmr-locations-vehicle-prod.svg?h=BBPC2F0f

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Lance Khrome's avatar

Lutnick has to be the most unserious appointment in an administration bursting with incompetence. Only in tRump's Murka would a schnorrer like Lutnick be given a position of responsibility.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

IDK, when it comes to incompetence in the cabinet - he has a lot of competition. It's a whole moron Olympics.

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Will Liley's avatar

Lance, the thing is, Lutnick is clearly not dumb: he rose to be CEO of major brokerage Cantor Fitzgerald and understands finance and must have at least a passing acquaintance with global trade. Yet as you say, this was moronic. Australia respectfully sought exemption from aluminum and steel tariffs; Lutnik listened, two days later said No, but then couldn’t resist insulting the Aussies by claiming (wrongly of course) that we are dumping. The lackeys compete to be the most servile.

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Sharon Holt's avatar

Try

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Michael Gerard LeBlanc's avatar

Sorry but I'm having a hard time following your post. It get's even more garbled towards the end and devolves into a patch work of unrelated slogans.

Are you saying that the US Government should subside low-wage low-tech unskilled garment work to take it back from developing countries? And if they don't they are elitists who don't believe in community? Did you even read and/or understand the article? Maybe while they are at it they should subsidize Blockbuster video stores so they can make a come-back. And travel agencies. Maybe the US government could pay for classes for people to become travel agents, sweatshop workers, and 8-track tape salespeople.

Since you seem to be low-information, I'll explain it to you. But what you should really do is take responsibility and research a subject before you post.

What the "elites" as you call them are doing now, or were doing under the last administration, is offering low-cost or even free TRAINING for HIGH-DEMAND DECENT PAYING jobs of the FUTURE. Like medical assistants, nurses and nursing assistants, cyber-security, IT, etc. etc. They have crafted educational programs that have 6-mo to 1 yr time span, scaling back the 4-yr degree requirement to get started in a career. They were working in tandem with COMMUNITY Colleges to help orchestrate this.

Don't worry, I'm sure Trump and Musk will continue to destroy the US Education System, so these programs can no longer be offered. Instead of creating micro chips etc so that we don't depend on FOREIGN ADVERSARIES to make components for cars and computers, we can become 3rd World garment workers.

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Mohan Raj's avatar

Of course, there are elites who believe in community, education, social security etc. Otherwise the US wouldn't be here. Thank God for them. I said 'current ruling elites' without naming names. I don't recall a single person of the 'current ruling elites' today who don't want to scrap social security, dismantle the department of education, or cancel access to whatever healthcare is left.

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sell-by's avatar

It's like you're speaking through a tube from 1980.

Let me give you a glimpse of now. I am working on a project -- in Canada, as it happens -- involving purchase of lab robots that already exist and are commercial. These robots can freely roam a lab and can set up and do the experiments themselves. I expect that in the next iteration, they'll also generate reports. Essentially they do the work of a BS-level lab scientist, potentially anything up to an MS-level scientist with less than maybe 5-10 years' experience. The difference: they do the work with far greater precision and repeatability than these junior scientists are likely to, they don't require any benefits, they don't take scheduled vacations, and they don't create interpersonal tensions, which many scientists like to avoid. They cost about a million dollars, which, when you look at a junior/mid-level scientist salary and benefit costs and payroll taxes and all the rest, looks like about a wash budgetwise.

Education is not the solution it once was, because now educated people also have to compete with robots. The more technical the discipline, the more susceptible it is to roboticization. So all the "push kids into STEM" stuff -- parents, you might want to rethink what it means and what a kid will need to learn to stay employed.

Is it still necessary? For the country, absolutely. And I will always argue that education will improve prospects for a richer life. But if it costs a student much, I wouldn't bet on seeing that money back.

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Mohan Raj's avatar

Development of robotics and AI is a good example. If a future arrives where humans have no job to take - well educated or not - how will they feed themselves? If humans in a country have no productive role to offer, do we just abandon them?

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sell-by's avatar

Well, that's the thing, isn't it. As much as Andrew Yang annoys me, and as silly as his solution was, I admit he wasn't wrong in pointing out what's coming. And, in some cases, already here.

There is still work in making, monitoring, feeding, and correcting AIs/robots, but what I see on a practical level is that corporations and institutions are willing to accept a fairly large proportion of bad outcomes from approximate/badly-made AIs if it gets them to most of what they want inexpensively. So in most cases I think there's probably less work in babysitting the AIs and robots than people might be hoping for (though possibly more work for lawyers for injured parties).

I am also seeing institutions readily dispense with privacy controls on AIs even when told they must use them. I don't think they'll be responsive unless courts make it very expensive not to respond.

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Jacob Lehman's avatar

Yes, but note that since workers in lower-cost countries will still earn wages (albeit lower than in the high-cost countries) the savings will never fully offset the loss of income. So people who worked in the lower-tech industries and aren't able to adapt will still experience real loss of well-being compared to where they would have been, no matter how much we try to transfer.

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Sko Hayes's avatar

There will always be low tech jobs available in a country this size. We still have farms, ranches, service jobs, police, fire, manufacturing etc.

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Barbara's avatar

Police, fire and many manufacturing jobs are no longer low tech. An increasing number of folks in these jobs have higher education. Even 50 years ago, a small Southern town near me hired a police chief who had a master's degree.

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Jess Neubauer's avatar

Yes, but don't you find out a little sinister? Requiring higher degrees for these jobs means that more people have to take out loans disguised as education. It just seems like another vector of inequality.

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sell-by's avatar

We should definitely be paying for education publicly, but the world's much more complex than it was in 1970 and so are the systems we use. It takes education to understand them.

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Barbara's avatar

Not at all sinister. And not everyone needs to take out loans. I know more than one young person who managed to get full scholarships because they have been diligent in their schoolwork. Others get education paid for by their employers. My grandson is now getting a master's degree that way, for example. He only had to promise to stay 2 years after he completes it.

In general, investing in one's own education is a winning formula. Most earn far more than they would had they not pursued more education. But, it's not for everyone. The main issue is getting a skill. We will always need plumbers, electricians, and many other skilled workers.

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sell-by's avatar

I don't think you've had a good look at farming lately: much is roboticized. It takes thousands of hours of training to become a licensed hairdresser because of how scientific & technical the product use is. What manufacturing exists tends to be high-tech. You've got to come outside and see the world sometimes.

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Sko Hayes's avatar

I've been living and working in farm and ranch country for the last 40 years, so I'm quite experienced in the subject. Maybe you should make less assumptions about people.

If you think these farmers out here can afford a self driving (presuming that's what you meant when you said "robotic") tractor, when a normal tractor can cost 100K and up, I don't think you understand the economics.

The newer equipment is heavy on computers that make life easier, but makes it more expensive and harder to repair.

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sell-by's avatar

Then you're talking about small operations, because I don't see people buying tractors for much under $300K, and that's for pretty conventional machines. Roboticization covers everything from driving to planting to harvesting to sorting, not to mention soil testing across an array of variables, irrigation, it's a large field. I don't know about wash facilities but I imagine some degree of roboticization exists there as well.

Smaller businesses are always the last to adopt new tech for the reasons you give. That doesn't mean the industry isn't changing while they find more spare shoelaces to fix things with.

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Sko Hayes's avatar

The average farm acreage here is 804 acres, twice the national average and doesn't include leased acres. Keep trying.

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sell-by's avatar

That's still just not a big farm around here, I'm sorry. Not even close. It sounds like you're in the arena of mid-sized family farms, sort of just hanging on, rather than agribiz. And no, you guys are not buying hi-tech, you're repairing things from the 1970s and 1980s. Look at the direction you're facing, though: you're facing into the past. Personally, for farming, I don't think that's a bad thing, even though those years were immensely destructive environmentally, in terms of soil health, water use, etc. However, past is what you face, an agribiz does not. The course of tech development and marketing is almost always high-end first, and then as it becomes a "gotta have" it's modded and cheapened for lower-end markets. I'm sure you can look around your current farm and find plenty of examples. Even your $100K tractor is one.

I am actually surprised that the farm robots have done as well as they have; I didn't think they'd be robust enough or deal well with variation. But I supposed that's been the attitude towards mechanization all along, and while it usually takes the machine people several drafts to get somewhere, eventually someone does.

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Ryan Collay's avatar

I do worry about all jobs we hold dear requiring expensive training…it’s hard to offshore building houses yet these folks will have trouble keeping up with office workers’ incomes. And I’m not sure the office work is healthy and supportive of a life. I look at the extreme overhead in private medical corporations as the result of paperwork and profits. Pushing papers to deny medical care may not be making shoes but is is soul-less none the less.

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Terence J. Ollerhead's avatar

I remember graduate school in the late 70s, during the Iran crisis. A brilliant professor (in hindsight) said two memorable things that I think of to this day. One was that in order to understand Iran, one has to understand the United States, for they are much closer in nature than they appear, both captive to religious extremists. Second, he said that the role of capitalism as it was set up was to feudalize us, to make us all serfs. Oh, how we laughed!

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Teri's avatar

Your professor had rare insight. Prophets are never respected in their own countries, and “I told you so” is cold comfort.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

He just had his eyes open. That's really all it took. It was so obvious.

But you're right, it's rare for anyone to have their eyes open.

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Teri's avatar

I know I didn’t, but I was very young, idealistic, and blissfully ignorant/innocent at the time. I truly believed that, given a choice, everyone would choose right over wrong. How sad is that?

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Terence J. Ollerhead's avatar

Me too. That is why I have been so gullible all of my life. I have never understood evil, or more exactly, people actively choosing to be.

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Teri's avatar

Yeah…sadder but wiser, and active supporter of the pharmaceutical antidepressant industry. Oh, and alcohol!

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Terence J. Ollerhead's avatar

Me too!

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Florence Aymá's avatar

Yup I won’t lie, I thought I was the only one who believed that ultimately people as a whole would help each other, to do unto others… that’s why wine is becoming a staple

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Dee Whitman's avatar

I refuse to think of such a worldview (mine, too) as sad.

I feel a little rueful that my idealism (and my being surrounded by like-minded ppl) kept me from understanding that a large a % of the world is deeply neurotic and fueled by rage, and that such people are intent on controlling others -- but I won't ever regret living according to idealistic principles and theoretically modeling them for others.

In addition, if you and I are roughly the same age (I'm 63), then we grew up seeing progress for Black Americans, for women, for LG people (not yet LGBTQ+), so it made sense to assume that progress would continue. That said, I read Susan Faludi's book "Backlash" c. 1993 and unfortunately didn't take away from it that backlash is gradual, long, and fierce.

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Teri's avatar

68

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SB's avatar

Yeah clowns like Krugman were so entranced by their religion of neoliberalism they couldn't see reality until it hit them like a freight train.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I don't do business with trolls. Buh bye.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Wow. Was he ever dead on target.

The Christofascists have been pushing hard for "Christian" sharia law ever since Jerry Falwell's (im)moral "majority".

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Ryan Collay's avatar

Ah yes, the smiling, and the quite evil Jerry! Wow! Look at the puritanical, hateful, evangelicalism's role in where we are…hate climate science, hate diversity, hate peoples who think! Thinkers are scary, might remind us that the Earth is not 6,700 yeas old and that human’s never walked with dinosaurs (well birds are dinosaurs evolved over 100’s of millions of years.) Puritans are telling us what we can’t do every day…still. Controlling the arts, sex and politics. And don't start on gender...

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Teri's avatar

The evangelicals are hot to usher in the Apocalypse, and bring about Hell on Earth. The way things are going, they won’t have long to wait.

Funny thing about that, tho…they believe they will receive their just reward when Christ returns. And they will, but it won’t be what they expect, and they won’t be prepared for their destination. 😳😈😱

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Ryan Collay's avatar

Are you saying that the antichrist isn’t who will get them into heaven? Good thought…too few American Christian’s act like Jesus, more like God and I think there is a commandment related to false idols too. St Peter will be a busy guy for sure.

Would be a funny list of the excuses they will use…

“I didn’t know!”

“He lied to us about being god, instead of Doge.”

“He looks so authentic.”

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

They think God is orange?

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Ryan Collay's avatar

‘They think?’ That really is the operative question…they ‘know!’ Fealty to their ‘Orange Lard.’ Lordy, Lordy…although I see he’s looking a bit thinner these days…and oranger.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

👆🎯Or they'll be stuck here with us in the toxic stew they created.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Wasn't there something about seventy virgins waiting for them...oh, wait, I'm sorry, that was Islamic extremists. It's hard to distinguish between the two :D

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

They never tell them it will be their fellow extremist virgins, though.

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Florence Aymá's avatar

“I shouldn’t have to wear a mask! That should be MY choice! “ -K. Paxton, et al. Also from the same cult, “Don’t you DARE get medical care for a miscarriage - because I (and my other rich white brethren) say so!”

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

"Drink bleach to cure covid and inject Lysol, then pop a few Ivermectin. Take cod liver oil to ward off measles."

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

And on top of that, the world is not flat.

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Ryan Collay's avatar

Nor 6,700 years old, nor did humans walk with dinosaurs…they have a freakin’ museum!

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Paul Olmsted's avatar

The “ new deal “ and later the “ great society”

gave us a glimpse of what a middle class life could be for millions of us . That can’t be compromised without a struggle.

And , for a least a shining moment, businesses seemed to go along with a “ bargain “ with

unions and others to pay middle class wages

in return for the workers to purchase the products thus produced .

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Deborah Kotob's avatar

Sadly, it's a brilliant analogy that nearly half the country won't recognize as a problem. His second point on the role of capitalism as feudalism, which by design makes us all serfs, is painfully true. Look at the capitalistic technofeudalism" and "transhumanism aspirations of the crypto tech bros to destroy democracy and replace it with autocracy. Their aspirations are summed up in this article: https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/5098642-why-exactly-are-tech-billionaires-kissing-trumps-ring/

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Marge Wherley's avatar

I think that’s one reason the Republicans hate affordable healthcare insurance. They want the serfs to be dependent on work for the lords to have healthcare. If the serfs have healthcare, they might just find a better lord to work for.

I’ve never forgotten a scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail where two peasants were groveling in the mud and one looked up and said “There goes the King.” His fellow serf said “How do you know he’s the king?” “He doesn’t have any shit all over him.”

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Jacqueline Brinsmead's avatar

So you are saying that employer provided healthcare is is basically golden handcuffs, trapping people with horrible employers. They are afraid to start a job with a new employer and a new insurance provider who might deny coverage of pre-existing conditions.

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Marge Wherley's avatar

Well, yeah.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Not so golden - fools gold.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Or maybe they just want us to croak?

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Teri's avatar

The tech bros think they are all going to profit off of the sale of America. A select few probably will, but most of them will get tossed out with the rest of us as soon as they are no longer useful to the Oligarchs.

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DrBDH's avatar

So far the stock market crash has cost the billionaires who attended Trump’s inauguration $209 billion, so the sale isn’t going so well for them.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Abject poverty for the billionaire oligarchs = justice.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

It's working:

Boycott TE卐LA! Boycott Swastikar!

Short TE卐LA! Short Swastikar!

Boycott 卐tarlink!

Short 卐tarlink!

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Tony D's avatar

I remember a talk by a Harvard professor who got back from years Iran. He said that the people weren't so much religious, but that their prior governments were so much more corrupt than their religious leaders that their citizens chose harsh religion over corrupt politicians. I wonder, will we be in the same position at some point? Would I choose Pope Francis over Donald Trump? In a heartbeat.

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Teri's avatar

Yeah, but no guarantee the next Pope will be as enlightened.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Yes, I doubt the good old boys club in the Vatican, will make that mistake twice.

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Jacqueline Brinsmead's avatar

Sadly, you may not have that choice. From the look of things in the US, the oligarchs are working hand in hand with the "Christian" Nationalists. You'll have the distinct "joy" of a government that is corrupt and enforcing a harsh religious doctrine. I hadn't realized that Margaret Atwood was so prescient.

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Teri's avatar

Good…we need to break them.

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Teri's avatar

I’d rather vote for Newsom, and he’s on my shit-list at the moment.

I would like to send the Felon, the muskRAT, and all of their ilk on a

one-way trip to Mars.

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The Coke Brothers's avatar

'Does Trump want us to manufacture sneakers, not semiconductors?'

It looks like he wants to manufacture one crisis after another.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

tRump is emotionally about 3 years old. Every interaction is a transaction to him and he considers the only acceptable outcome to be 'I win, you lose'. Add to that his low information capacity and low IQ and he is fostering a kakistocracy right here in the United States. What is likely to happen is with his deranged behavior and ridiculous trade war, other nations will eventually just decide it is not worth the grief to sell anything to us.

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Deborah Kotob's avatar

Kakistocracy is a perfect description of what is occurring as we watch in horror.

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Shrew of Amherst's avatar

OR to buy anything from us.

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Leigh Horne's avatar

Within a 'state of emergency,' remember, the president can act with virtual immunity from the law.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

He doesn't even need a state of emergency. He's got a Supreme Court decision to lean on.

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John Gregory's avatar

the Extreme court ruling protects him against criminal prosecution but it does not extend his powers. The state of emergency does that. Will a court review the reasonableness of such a declaration? I don't know. Courts should, though cautiously.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

By granting him total immunity, they've effectively granted him unlimited power. As for whether a court will review such a declaration, that, unfortunately, is YTBD.

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Bruce's avatar

This is his modus operandi: He causes a crisis, blames someone else for the problem, declares "Only I can fix it!" then half-fixes whatever he did to cause the crisis in the first place.

So things get steadily worse but he gets the credit for 'fixing the problem'

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Not that it's something to brag about, but at least he can claim to be tremendously successful at something.

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John Gregory's avatar

as someone said during his first presidency, he's an idiot, but he's very good at it.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

He's a genius at being an idiot 🤣

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Robert Jaffee's avatar

“So what do you get if you put Lutnick’s remarks and Trump’s diatribe together? You get a picture of an administration that wants to use tariffs to bring back the low-wage, low-technology industries of the past, while killing policies promoting the industries of the future. Apparently they envision an America that produces sneakers, but doesn’t produce semiconductors.”

While I agree with everything you say professor, I think it’s more nefarious than you suggest! I believe Trump wants to bring every industry to heel!

He will ultimately pick winners and losers; just like he is targeting any law firm that does business with any of the people, or entities, that he feels maligned him; even in the slightest of ways.

Additionally, he’s reprogramming the DOJ and FBI to target enemies, real or perceived, and offering pardons to anyone he deems “unfairly” treated by the weaponized Biden DOJ and FBI; pardons for payoffs!

Furthermore, Trump is singlehandedly destroying the rule of law, which will ultimately have chilling consequences on our economic security and system.

First, and foremost, our allies will stop investing in America (already seeing capital flea for greener pastures). In fact, while the US markets were tanking, the EU is recording its best market gains in several years.

Additionally, since Trump will decide which companies thrive or fail, it makes our markets unstable and vulnerable to market manipulation. We’re already seeing the results of decimating every federal agency; and BLS is no different. The administration could easily manipulate economic data, since it’s destroying all the data sets that economists rely on for realtime and past economic data and information.

And lastly, given Trump’s hostility towards are allies, and the lack of a rule of law, the dollar will become unstable, and the world will abandon the dollar as the world’s currency reserve.

Bottom line: Nothing good comes from whatever chaos Trump is causing; deliberate, or not. In fact, there may be no coming back from this. However, if we don’t stem the bleeding soon, then we are signing our own death certificate.

And unlike other Mighty Empires that have fallen, our death will be by suicide. And nothing embodies the fall of our democracy like a a quote from Robert Maynard Hutchins:

“The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.”

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Leigh Horne's avatar

So he's a dick. How do we defeat his idiot agenda?

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Robert Jaffee's avatar

I’m not sure of the answer; however, if we are compliant while he tries to implement his agenda further, then we will be complicit. We need to apply pressure on our politicians; democrats and republicans, alike, and start boycotting any and all companies that support this fascist.

Additionally, we need to start running independents in red states, and red districts. Apparently, the Democratic brand is so toxic, it’s better to run moderate democrats in these deeply gerrymandered districts, and in purple state elections, than it would be to run a democrat against a deeply unpopular Republican in these same states and districts. IMHO!…:)

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

We need more like Bernie!

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Rise! Resist! ✊

Boycott TE卐LA! Boycott Swastikar!

Short TE卐LA! Short Swastikar!

https://nowmarch.org/

https://generalstrikeus.com/strikecard

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Ricardo Stone's avatar

We can only defeat his agenda by pulling the biggest judo move ever: Destroying the power of the federal government so that individual states can chart their own courses. We need to move social security and medicare to the administration of the states and, in order to do that, we need to make each state in charge of its own borders.

The federal government is gone. Republicans have said its OK to be corrupt as long as you're with us. Once we have opened up to corruption, it is impossible to get rid of it without throwing out the system and completely starting over.

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Sharon's avatar

Revolutions eat their own children.

This one is moving fast relying on shock and awe. That didn't work well for us in Iraq, did it?

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Deborah Kotob's avatar

A dangerous dick!

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case. It's a total takeover.

I do believe, however, that there's a lot of potential for a Phoenix to arise from the ashes, but we're a long way off from that at this point.

The end of the tunnel isn't in sight yet, but it could be within another year, maybe even a few months.

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Robert Jaffee's avatar

“I do believe, however, that there's a lot of potential for a Phoenix to arise from the ashes, but we're a long way off from that at this point.”

Agreed, let’s just hope it’s not a Pyrrhic victory; we’re literally left, with just ashes!…:)

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Teri's avatar

Nailed it.

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Nancy Cruz's avatar

I was thinking just the same. Let’s look at musks comments on h1bs. Musk is a globalist (as are other oligarchs) and if you widen the lens it is easier to import workers who you can control on h1bs than it is to invest in developing local skill. Let’s America be the place where the oligarchs exploit the wealth. Employ our people in skillless labor that requires little investment (in education). My heart is broken for my son and others graduating from college an aspiring scientist (materials science in my sons case) who now will find no funded research opportunities. The rug has been pulled from these kids who endured in spite of Covid now to find nothing there for them.

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Maureen's avatar

He should consider emigrating after he graduates; there are many countries that would welcome him with his degree in hand.

Normally, I'd recommend Canada, but that might not be safe now. Perhaps he should look into Australia or New Zealand.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I'd still recommend Canada. Most Canadians appreciate those of us who oppose this coup.

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Maureen's avatar

I'm a Canadian; I immigrated to Canada from the US back in 1971, and, normally, I'd recommend anyone who qualifies do the same.

However, with Trump threatening to destroy our economy to annex us as the "51st state," I don't know that I would recommend immigrating to Canada now--not because Canadians would not welcome the young man but because our economy, at the very least, may be very dicey for some time.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Ours is going to be even worse.

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Jasmine R's avatar

There might not be enough money to hire him, anyway. Just a couple days ago a Canadian journalist Paul Wells that I follow here in Substack was talking about the American osteoporosis research that Trump is tanking but Canadian universities are in their second year of hiring freezes and not positioned to give them a new home.

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Maureen's avatar

That depends on the province, but universities all over Canada have been underfunded for a long time.

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Jasmine R's avatar

It's a shame, though I can only speak to Ontario where I am. Now that schools can't overcharge as many international students, programs are being cut left and right.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

MuskRat isn't even American. He's a product of Apartheid.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

He has zero loyalty to this country or its traditions. It is just another business and power opportunity to him.

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Maureen's avatar

His US citizenship should be revoked--but, of course, it won't be. He came to the US on a student visa but didn't go to university. Instead, he illegally started in business.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

And he might have lied on his visa application to boot.

Lock him up! In Guantanamo!

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Lee Peters's avatar

He’s admitted to having depression and to using illicit drugs. Citizenship applicants are asked if they have mental illness and/or have broken the law, so to get citizenship he must have lied during the application process. Trump has suggested Prince Harry be deported for the same reasons. Of course Harry isn’t a useful tool for him and he married a biracial American woman. Meanwhile hardworking unprivileged brown people are hunted down and tossed out for less.

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Maureen's avatar

I'd love to see ICE go after him. After all, if they think they can revoke a green card without the holder's having committed a crime and without a trial, why no revoke illegally acquired citizenship?

Maybe Musk will piss off Trump enough for Trump to do it. THAT would be an interesting battle. I'm sure Trump would jump at it if he could confiscate Musk' money.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Ya never know :D

And Rupert and Lachlan while were at it. Make it a party!

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Maureen's avatar

Don't forget Peter Theil, who, though born in Germany, is another South African.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Not quite, he sucks but

"After earning two bachelor's degrees (one in physics and one in economics) from the University of Pennsylvania, Musk was accepted into Stanford's Ph.D. program in applied physics and material sciences.

The Internet Boom:

However, he quickly realized that the internet was poised to revolutionize the world, and he felt that he could have a greater impact by participating in its development rather than focusing on his physics research.

Entrepreneurial Path:

He decided to leave Stanford and instead pursue the internet boom, taking a loan from his father to start his first company, Zip2, a web startup that provided city tour software."

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Maureen's avatar

Yes, but he was still on a student visa.

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Shrew of Amherst's avatar

None of us are ‘Americans’ unless of 100% tribal ancestry. We’re all hyphenated hypocrites claiming to be entitled to an identity so fungible that it’s a joke, both cruel and stupid. They’re painting the passports 50 shades of grey.

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Leigh Horne's avatar

Sad+angry+barf emoji faces. There really should be a fighting berserker emoji.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

How about this one? 🤬

Or this: 🥷

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Somewhere, Somehow's avatar

Terrible for them and our society. I have to ask how many of these graduating STEM individuals voted and for whom? If what I’ve read is correct, many of them did not bother and those who did voted for a pseudo masculine meme. If this is true, they got what they voted for.

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mary mclaughlin's avatar

My contacts tell me that educated workers (like scientists and others) who live in red states are the ones who did NOT vote for this regime.

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MICHAEL'S CURIOUS WORLD's avatar

Australia has a category for accepting immigrants who have skills in demand here. He should investigate it to see if he qualifies.

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Aubrey W Kendrick's avatar

"Personal Animus"

Many of the media pundits and talking heads are always sane washing Donald's remarks and trying to argue that he is making decisions based on complicated policy goals.

But actually, many or most of Donald's decisions are based on "personal animus" or just the fact that he likes one person and does not like another person.

John Bolton was Donald's national security advisor in the first administration. Bolton is not one of my favorite people, but he does know a lot about foreign policy. In a recent interview he said that Donald's policy toward Russia and Ukraine can be explained by the fact that Donald likes Putin and does not like Zelenski. Is that not astounding? The President is making important foreign policy decisions based on nothing but personal likes and dislikes. And that is probably true of much of what Donald does. He is settling scores or making life hard for someone he dislikes or doing something for someone he does like.

Donald is like many people in that he does not know that things change and if one is going to be in business one has to change along with the times. Making clothes might have been good for New York in the 1950's but that does not mean that making clothes would be good for New York today. People are going to live in the future regardless of what Donald thinks.

Thanks to Professor Krugman for today's fine article.

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Aubrey W Kendrick's avatar

Donald hates the CHIPs Act because it was passed while Biden was President. And he is going to run down anything that Biden did.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Thus proving that he's psychotic.

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MICHAEL'S CURIOUS WORLD's avatar

If Trump cancels the CHIPs Act and chips manufacturing stops in the US, and China then invades Taiwan and seizes control of its chips plants, then Trump will have both caused many Americans to lose their jobs, and made America less secure. Trump is supposed to be increasing manufacturing in the USA, not reducing it. Isn't that what MAGAs voted for - more American jobs?

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Leigh Horne's avatar

Why don't you tell us what you really think? (Ha ha) Trump is one of the most brain-dead people outside the rubber rooms of a mental hospital I've ever had to deal with. And yes, his actions and inactions are going to affect all of us. Sometimes I think his cerebral cortex has been compromised by drugs and/or some form of organic cognitive decline or dementia and now all that's left is the so-called reptilian or survival instincts part of the brain. Too bad, then, that he's so paranoid, too, and so used to strong-arming his way through life. Egad and Gadzooks.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

All of the above, and he's always been that way.

It's worked for him for decades, so why would he change?

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Or maybe he's just psychotic. He's certainly a psychopath.

His actions all bring him more power - and stolen wealth.

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Deborah Kotob's avatar

Malignant narcissist describes him: Malignant Narcissism:

This term describes individuals who exhibit both narcissistic and antisocial traits, often characterized by a combination of narcissism, antisocial behavior, sadism, and a paranoid outlook.

Malignant narcissists, also known as narcissistic sociopaths, may be more likely to engage in harmful behaviors, such as manipulation, abuse, and exploitation, for personal gain.

They may lack remorse and empathy, and they may be prone to aggression and vindictiveness when their ego is threatened.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Do they also have delusions of grandeur? He clearly does.

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joyce book's avatar

Good one. Dont forget child labor.

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Dennis Hui's avatar

Yes, and there's been a push to lower child labour protection in recent years.

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u.n. owen's avatar

Since they'll be drinking raw sewage the Musk White House has taken care of them already.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Make slavery great again! /s

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u.n. owen's avatar

Trumpf did that half century ago by refusing to rent to them in NYC.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

He learned that from his father.

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u.n. owen's avatar

Family hairloom.

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Gary R Robe (TN)'s avatar

There is still a small textile industry in the US with a few mills in the southeast. What do they make? They supply the low thread count fabric used to make duct tape. Looking at the duct tape industry is a fascinating study of the decisions that go into industrial investments.

Making duct tape requires buying four very large and expensive types of equipment to produce the adhesive, fabricate the tape, and cut it into small rolls. Buying that equipment made sense back before the 1960's when the adhesive tape industry got started and all of those factories were in the US. Nowadays, a large capital expenditure must have a 3-5 year payback to justify the project to investors. By the time that the markets outside the US developed enough to support making heavy adhesive tape outside North America, the payback time for buying the equipment expanded to 10+ years so manufacturing stayed in the US with a few plants in Canada and Mexico.

Making duct tape requires natural rubber, resins, oils, and mineral fillers to make the adhesive, textile scrim, and thin polyethylene film. That's why there's still a vestige of the textile industry in the southeast US mostly supplying the cloth to the tape makers, the two largest of which are located in North Carolina and Kentucky. I know this because a worked for over 40 years as an adhesive chemist supporting the tape industry. Check my LinkedIn profile if you don't believe me.

All of this illustrates the fantasy of bringing back low tech industry to the US. Say you want to start making shoes here. Fine. Making shoes requires some relatively inexpensive equipment like sewing machines, glue dispensers and a lot of hand labor. But wait! How about the materials that you'll need to make a shoe? Heavy cloth for sneakers? You'd need to find someone to make that here too. Molded rubber soles? Same problem. You want to get into the high value leather shoe market? Leather tanning is a nasty, stinky, toxic process that nobody in the US would touch even if the entire EPA is dismantled.

Manufacturing actually grows on something like a tree. You have to make the stuff to make the stuff to make the product. That supply chain tree takes years to grow, and there's almost certainly a choke point somewhere that requires investment in equipment that won't fit the payback requirements for our shark tank investors today.

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Lee Peters's avatar

And back when the US did manufacture textiles, manufacturing originally concentrated in New England. Then it moved to southern states to take advantage of cheaper labor (as did the auto industry). Globalization was the next step in a process that had already pitted US regions and states against each other. Someone should point this out to Donald. If he really wants to bring back the Victorian era, he needs to restart textiles production in (blue) New England states. He might just fall for the idea considering his obsession with the lousy McKinley era. Snicker.

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freebird's avatar

You must have worked for part of the Lincoln Group who had plants in Tennessee and South Carolina among other places. They specialized in pressure sensitive tapes, appliqué and other things. I remember that they were concerned with putting toxic chemicals in the water and to build a water purification system.

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Gary R Robe (TN)'s avatar

Actually it was Kendall Company back then, now Berry Plastics. Funny you should mention water treatment because the plant where I worked in Franklin, KY had an independent water treatment facility and it was part of my job as the analytical lab manager to monitor the discharge water quality. The outflow from the plant ran into a sinkhole that found its way into Drakes Creek, the town water supply.

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Raul Ramos y Sanchez's avatar

Of course, Trump hates the CHIPS act. With Trump, it's always about personality, not policy.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

It's Great! It's Tremendous! It's Yuuuuugggge!

King MAGA is the very definition of "over the top".

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Julie Campagna's avatar

As someone who worked in the fashion industry since I was a teenager and then reported on it as a journalist, I fully understand the ludicrousness of expecting tariffs to spur vast re-shoring of the garment industry. Several of my Italian-American aunts worked as seamstresses after unionization and regulations, and while they didn’t get rich, they were able to support themselves and their families with these jobs. Eventually, companies did not want to pay union wages or benefits, so they went down south because factories were non-union, and then they went overseas. Today, sophisticated sourcing has produced products where every piece of a garment or shoe is manufactured in the cheapest places possible, with final construction done, again, in the country with the most inexpensive labor to give consumers affordable the price points and massive variety that generations have come to expect. Huge malls full of large chain stores all fed the fashion industry and real estate development, but this way of doing business, while it produces cheap goods and acres of over-retailed cities, has been damaging both the environment and the industry as a whole. Nearly every segment of the fashion industry is now owned by huge conglomerates, which has hurt competition, thus creativity. Now we are stuck with zombie malls, sameness in the marketplace, few job opportunities for new designers, an abundance of low-quality goods, and a saturated, understaffed market that cannot compete with online sales. Tariffs are not the answer, as the supply chain is so complex and intertwined all over the globe. And, of course, no one wants to bring back the Triangle-Shirtwaist-factory days of dangerous working conditions, but there are areas of high-skill jobs for the luxury sector that could be re-shored with the right incentives, but they have to be created in small, incremental ways with both industry, design schools and government participating. No one in this administration understands anything about the specifics of the fashion industry, or any industry for that matter, so it is unrealistic that any tariffs slapped on components, parts or finished goods will boost U.S. manufacturing, either in the short or long term. They also will not benefit the few garment factories that do exist in the U.S. because, as you stated, the buttons, zippers, thread, textiles, etc. come from other countries. Those ham-handed tactics to boost ratings on “The Apprentice” will not work in the real world.

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Sharon's avatar

The hallmark of this administration is simple minded thinking. What you've just written is far too long for someone like Trump to read. A sentence or two is all he can handle.

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Somewhere, Somehow's avatar

Why then did my running shoes cost me almost $200?

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Julie Campagna's avatar

Because that is what the market can charge, and companies don’t scour the earth for cheaper production to save money for consumers. They do it to cut expenses and increase their profits.

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Nigel's avatar

"owned by huge conglomerates, which has hurt competition"

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CDinWeChe's avatar

Professor Krugman is giving too much credit to Trump and Lutnick by suggesting that they have any particular objective - no matter how silly - that they expect to achieve with their incoherent policies. In fact, tomorrow's policies may be different than today's. To even call them "policies" seems to go too far.

With respect to trade and commerce, as with respect to just about anything else, it is futile to look for any internal logic or factual basis underlying Trump's policies. In attempting to understand them, there are only two possible explanations. First, they benefit Putin, and/or second, they arise from some personal animus, vendetta, misunderstanding, or obsession that Trump has developed for some reason over the course of his life.

What sounds like policy is really just weak rationalization intended to backfill a justification for the muddled musings of our psychologically damaged President. People like Lutnick embarrass themselves daily by engaging in this tragicomic exercise.

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Lynn's avatar

Dead on accuracy here

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Chris Stanton's avatar

Trump could have his MAGA hats and t-shirts made in America. He still chooses not to. What a shocker.

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Terence J. Ollerhead's avatar

The US that Trump sees is a nineteenth-century Dickensian one. Why else would you destroy education at every level; dismantle scientific institutions; the arts; the courts; universities; research of every kind; meda; first amendment rights; habeas corpus. He's not hiding what his vision is. And most of you seem to be okay with it, along with his bellicose ramblings against Canada, Panama, Greenland, Europe, Ukraine ... He has told you, and us, a million times what he is, and he'll keep going, because so far there's no downside. Until one day the apocalypse.

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Lee Peters's avatar

“Why else would you destroy education at every level; dismantle scientific institutions; the arts; the courts; universities; research of every kind; meda; first amendment rights; habeas corpus”

And women’s rights to bodily autonomy/reproductive rights. (The maelstrom of economic and international relations news has pushed this area out of the headlines, but MAGAs are still moving full steam ahead on making women chattel again.)

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Somewhere, Somehow's avatar

Sounds like he wants the US to be just like Putin’s Russia.

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Erin's avatar

Well sure. Make Americans serfs again is what they truly want. We're not going to educate our kids, so they won't even be qualified for the types of jobs the future holds. But an ignorant populace with fungible skills is one they think they can control. They'll be too poor and ignorant to leave and too bound to the company store to rise up. At least for a little while...

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MB Matthews, she/her's avatar

Thank you. I have become increasingly concerned about the MAGA elites' comments on how many jobs will be created through"manufacturing plants."

I keep thinking of all the highly skilled and educated federal workers who were illegally fired in the decimation of federal agencies.

The MAGA elite certainly is thinking that they have the labor force to work in these plants.

Unless, of course, it's cheaper to bring in automated processes.

I am just sickened by their hatred for the normal Americans who are pursuing the American dream.

The MAGA elite instead want the average American to pursue their, the MAGA elites', dream of total control over wealth, the economy, and the final say on what's good for us.

It's time, people.

Take to the streets.

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sell-by's avatar

I think most of this is actually meant as propaganda for the elderly base, which is nostalgic for manufacturing days. Young people don't even know what this means, they've never seen an industrial economy. Paul is still half-talking as though the admin intends to actually see textile factories built. They don't intend to build anything. They're just there to steal. Knock it all down, taxes are still coming in, pocket them, the end.

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Michael Shapiro's avatar

Back in the early 2000s, I was working for a well known computer financials firm. Rows of long desks with a computer every 4 feet or so. Immigrant workers who came in early and stayed late No overtime pay, of course. Suddenly I blinked and was thrown back a century. Instead of computers, I saw sewing machines. I grew up with my grandfather's pedal driven Singer sewing machine in the house. Suddenly I felt things hadn't really changed.

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