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JMcLV's avatar

The current administration is a fascist regime that has lost all legitimacy.

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NubbyShober's avatar

The GOP won't be able to restrain themselves with this current exercise in sadism...err, crowd control.

Only four protestors died to National Guard gunfire at Kent State; but it was enough to shock the entire country into a course correction.

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KMD's avatar
Jun 10Edited

In reality, two of the four students killed at Kent State in May of 1970 were simply walking to class. James Michener wrote a wonderful book entitled simply "Kent State", where I learned their names: Sandra Shauer & William Schroeder.

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Michael silver's avatar

And another was paralyzed for life by a bullet that hit him almost a quarter mile away

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Jeremy Dailey's avatar

I read that book shortly after it was published. Gripping and outrageous.

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Jun 10Edited
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Frau Katze's avatar

Please report this spammer . I can’t. The report function doesn’t work on my iPhone.

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Rob Page's avatar

You should not compare the U.S. of those days with the U.S. of today. Trump currently enjoys a 50% approval rating among American men. Most MAGA folks will never hear of Trump's many abuses of authority and illegal actions, and if they do it will be framed in a pro-Trump manner. Tens of millions of Americans actively seek out wildly biased far right media that supports their own biases. "Objective" truth or reality is no longer persuasive in America.

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Lee Peters's avatar

True. The Republican Party of the early 1970s put the Constitution first during Watergate, established the EPA, and supported reproductive rights and federalism. It considered hiring entertainers for important positions like the presidency lunacy. None of which is true today.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Correct. The GOP has finally degraded to the level of the people who celebrated the murders at Kent State, which was and continues to be a majority of white voters.

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Martha Ture's avatar

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming

We're finally on our own

This summer I hear the drumming

Four dead in Ohio

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Heather Collins's avatar

I'm pretty sure the majority of white voters did not celebrate the murders at Kent State.

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RICHARD GIGOUT's avatar

...one thought...and i'm sorry if this is a bit long...however one describes the actions of the Nat'l Guard at Kent State, it was indeed a tragedy...I'm looking at the circumstances of then vs now: untrained reserve soldiers told they're facing a dangerous threat, heat of the summer wearing gas masks, little situational awareness, no crowd control gear, rifles with lethal rounds their only tool...all those elements are present right now anywhere that these troops are called up, & all it takes is one scared or hotheaded commander to give the order to fire, as happened at Kent. God forbid that happens anywhere, yet if it does, I pray the lion's share of blame is directed at those at the top placing troops there as provocation, not the lowest ranking soldiers or the protesters, or anyone caught in a crossfire

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Dan Schumacher's avatar

I am not so sure of this statement. I was a freshman in 1970 at another Ohio college and I heard many white woters who thought others should have been killed.

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RICHARD GIGOUT's avatar

...one thought...and i'm sorry if this is a bit long...however one describes the actions of the Nat'l Guard at Kent State, it was indeed a tragedy...I'm looking at the circumstances of then vs now: untrained reserve soldiers told they're facing a dangerous threat, heat of the summer wearing gas masks, little situational awareness, no crowd control gear, rifles with lethal rounds their only tool...all those elements are present right now anywhere that these troops are called up, & all it takes is one scared or hotheaded commander to give the order to fire, as happened at Kent. God forbid that happens anywhere, yet if it does, I pray the lion's share of blame is directed at those at the top placing troops there as provocation, not the lowest ranking soldiers or the protesters, or anyone caught in a crossfire

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RICHARD GIGOUT's avatar

...one thought...and i'm sorry if this is a bit long...however one describes the actions of the Nat'l Guard at Kent State, it was indeed a tragedy...I'm looking at the circumstances of then vs now: untrained reserve soldiers told they're facing a dangerous threat, heat of the summer wearing gas masks, little situational awareness, no crowd control gear, rifles with lethal rounds their only tool...all those elements are present right now anywhere that these troops are called up, & all it takes is one scared or hotheaded commander to give the order to fire, as happened at Kent. God forbid that happens anywhere, yet if it does, I pray the lion's share of blame is directed at those at the top placing troops there as provocation, not the lowest ranking soldiers or the protesters, or anyone caught in a crossfire

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Harvey Kravetz's avatar

Rob, spot on. It's clear that if one side is constantly generating justifications for bigotry, hatred, and anger, while the other advocates for equality and justice, those two visions are irreconcilable. Bridging such a divide requires more than just conversation; it demands a shift in fundamental perspectives and priorities.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Some tiny bit of progress was made when schools were integrated by force for a few years, but that is long gone and MAGAts are ascending.

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Anthony Beavers's avatar

Actually, most of the MAGA folks will hear about it. They just don't care! For them, Trump's anti-democratic actions aren't a bug, there a feature. As long as black/brown Catholic immigrants are the target, they're happy. The other stuff is just irrelevant to them.

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Max Brauer's avatar

"Yeah! He hates who I hate- can't get more democratic than THAT!"

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Kathleen Pirquet's avatar

It won't be only black/brown Catholic immigrants as the targets for long.

When they come for those who have been thinking, "I'm all right, Jack," it will be too da_____ late. Tyranny is like that, even for those who think it's just dandy. There are no allies, just serfs-in-waiting.

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Michelle's avatar

I don’t believe 50% of American men are pro-trump. Our country has issues but we aren’t filled with that many idiots. He will always have a core base of followers but over the last few months we’ve seen more and more former trump fans change their tune as well.

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Rob Page's avatar

Napolitan News Service surveyed 3,000 people between May 27 and June 3. The poll’s margin of error is plus/minus 1.8 percentage points.

Over half of men (58%) approve of Trump’s performance as president.

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Michelle's avatar

A sample size of 3,000 people out of a country of 343.6 million is not enough to conclude that over half of the men in the US are pro trump.

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Rob Page's avatar

It's not my responsibility to teach you statistics. But you're wrong.

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ira lechner's avatar

That percentage is meaningless during an election in which about 25 marginal seats in the House out of 435, and only 5 in the Senate will determine the direction of America politically and morally for the next two years!

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Susan Hofstader's avatar

Never heard of them. Polling is not simple, some organizations are better/more accurate than others. Also, can’t judge reaction to LA based on an old poll. That poll probably reflects the (mistaken) belief that Trump has pulled back on tariffs and prices won’t be going up after all.

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Kathleen Pirquet's avatar

Doesn't say much for American men...at least 58% of them.

They think they'll be OK, they'll be in the master class.

Fools.

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lena basse's avatar

I don’t know what’s more terrifying — that the majority actually supports his politics, marching us straight toward a totalitarian state… or that we’re a nation split in two, and sooner or later, that fracture will erupt. Into…let’s say…chaos.

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sharon f's avatar

I share your concern. Those who believe that Democrats are “against their way of life” (a successful phrase during the Iraq War) will dig in if challenged. Those standing up for democracy to continue must dig in more. All the Best-

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Pierce Randall's avatar

Maybe I'm not following your point, but Nixon's approval both before and after May 4, 1970 was significantly above 50%. Also, Trump is actually underwater at about 46.6% approval in Nate Silver's polling average.

Kent State would not have been percieved as entirely partisan or reflective of the president, whereas Trump clearly owns this deployment.

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Gary Slovin's avatar

This is an incredibly important point. His supporters are just wondering why the Fed police did not use real bullets. He, himself, is never in physical risk. But the military are happy to do his bidding. The protests are terrific. But he is not Lyndon Johnson. He will never step down, and the Congress will not take him down. Few are willing to hear this. But you are right. The American experiment is over.

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ira lechner's avatar

Not quite; the actual decisive point in time will be in November, 2026 when the media report the results of the determinative House and Senate elections! That is when our Democracy is at risk or of strength! I vote for political strength, truth, honesty, respect, free speech and DEMOCRACY WRIT LARGE! Let's make it our individual commitment, each of us, to work diligently and effectively to carry both the House and the Senate by significant margins. We can do it--are you with it?

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Kathleen Pirquet's avatar

Let us run our best and our brightest and most truly, loyally patriotic, while they run their greediest, self-servingest and most nakedly traitorous. And make sure that ALL Americans see, feel, and hear the difference.

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Kathleen Pirquet's avatar

Gary Slovin: "The American experiment is over."

You give up easily, sir.

Just stay out of our way.

Love,

Tens of millions of Americans who prefer democracy to tyranny

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Ryan Collay's avatar

It’s why they hate science, elite schools, and love toxic masculinity where they think they are in charge, till Mom come home, and tells him to grow up, 50 is too late.

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Chris's avatar

Kent State might not be a great comparison. Polling taken afterwards showed that most Americans thought the students had it coming, and barely about one tenth could actually bring themselves to blame the soldiers who committed the murders.

We've been sleepwalking into fascism for a long, long time.

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M. A. Porter's avatar

Recall that we were still in the heavy fear-culture of nuclear war with Russia, so anything that was out of step with what the government was doing (Viet Nam) was seen as red-commie dangerous. College protests against the war were seen as that. So the 'mix,' if you will, is different now.

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Martha Ture's avatar

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S026137941300152

Americans fail to meet the democratic ideal of an informed electorate, and the consequences of this political ignorance are a topic of significant scholarly debate. In two independent settings, we experimentally test the effect of political information on citizens' attitudes toward the major parties in the U.S. When uninformed citizens receive political information, they systematically shift their political preferences away from the Republican Party and toward the Democrats. A lack of knowledge on the policy positions of the parties significantly hinders the ability of low-socioeconomic-status citizens to translate their preferences into partisan opinions and vote choices. As a result, American public opinion—and potentially election results and public policy as a result—is significantly different from the counterfactual world in which all voters are informed

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Andan Casamajor's avatar

Not at all surprising, but, if ignorance is bliss, why are consumers of right-wing propaganda perpetually pissed off, even enraged?

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Indeed

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Celia's avatar

Only four at Kent State but two more at Jackson State

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Yes, but that shocked nobody because the victims were black.

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Carol C's avatar

We only talk about the dead. The wounded may have had life-changing injuries, but we never hear about them.

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Anca Vlasopolos's avatar

No, it was not. Kent State--1970. Nixon's 1972 election: a 49-state win, with only MA standing for McGovern. Americans loved to see the snotty college kids get theirs. I was the same age as those murdered by the National Guard, and I thought Americans would be repelled by the murder of young people, not only at Kent State but at Jackson State (we forget the latter because, well, those were "just" Black kids). In 1972 I realized how wrong I was.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Been battling these bastards since 1963, and I guess you’ve been right there in the fight, too, Anca Vlasopolis. Too bad we’ve seen so little success and that it now has come to this, where they openly brag that cruelty is the point.

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Anca Vlasopolos's avatar

How right you are!

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M. A. Porter's avatar

Recall that we were still in the heavy fear-culture of nuclear war with Russia, so anything that was out of step with what the government was doing (Viet Nam) was seen as red-commie dangerous. College protests against the war were seen as that. So the 'mix,' if you will, is different now.

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Partha's avatar

Thank you. I was beginning to think nobody else remembered.

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carie's avatar

yes

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Stephen Schiff's avatar

Thus it is of crucial importance that this Saturday's No Kings demonstrations be peaceful and that everyone stays out of DC.

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TomD's avatar

And that the protest end before dark, when the agents provocateur, looters, and adrenalin junkies emerge. Disavow all of that.

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Carol C's avatar

The protest I will attend is a single-file line of people on sidewalks, sitting in chairs with signs, seven miles long, 7000 people expected. Noon until 2 p.m. Maybe some impressive video from drones overhead.

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Kathleen Pirquet's avatar

Please do it ANYWHERE but on the DC parade route. Leave nobody to watch but the president and his creepy thugs.

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Carol C's avatar

Agreed!

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Mimi Stratton's avatar

It is vital that protests are nonviolent. Otherwise we help provide a rationale for trump's authoritarian moves.

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David Grinberg's avatar

If you put enough protestors together with enough "crowd control", somebody in one side or the other will do something stupid and somebody else will panic. They can invent the violence by the protestors later to suit their needs.

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Max Brauer's avatar

Especially when the "somebodies" are placed there to specifically smash and burn things to justify EMERGENCY MEASURES. Reichstag Fire - bringing back the classics!

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David Grinberg's avatar

History may not repeat, but it rhymes...

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Kathleen Pirquet's avatar

So leave the military and Trump and the cops with nobody but crickets, and I hope it rains on the parade. "He gave a parade and nobody came."

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Stefan Paskell's avatar

Trump's authoritarian moves have already been made. There is no need for further rationale. Nonviolence equates with irrelevancy.

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Mimi Stratton's avatar

Mute!

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Stefan Paskell's avatar

Perhaps that's practical advice, but it is what it is.

For example: Ghandi was nonviolent, and is served up as a success in helping India gain independence.

But what did that "nonviolence" lead to, in fact? Ghandi's nonviolence not only helped India gain independence, but has (paradoxically) led to sectarian partition of the nation and extreme violence between Muslims and Hindus, and war between the partitionates, India and Pakistan and West and East (Bangladeshi) Pakistan.

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Celia's avatar

I’m for nonviolent protests because I believe they are more effective. But I don’t believe we should tailor our actions to what provides a rationale for trump and his minions. They will find a rationale — even if we all hold hands and sing kumbaya. We can’t let them define our strategy and tactics

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Carsten Schmidt's avatar

But I live here … 🙂

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Stephen Schiff's avatar

If you want to participate in a No Kings demonstration, there are plenty in close by Maryland and Virginia. If I lived in DC, I’d be going to the one in Bethesda, out side the Fox 5 studios. But there are many to choose from!

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Celia's avatar

Don’t capitulate. Be mindful but protest where you want. They will blame us for violence whether any is committed or not (see Krugman above) so don’t let that determine where or how to protest! Size matters. Turn out.

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Kat H's avatar

Come on over to Arlington or head up to Philly.

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Max Brauer's avatar

I suggest aimlessly wandering the long, empty corridors of BWI.

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Barbara Negherbon's avatar

Our locales protest dovetails with a trump birthday party rally. I think it’s safe to assume most of the MAGAts will be armed with firearms, as per their right. I hope there is a visible police presence.

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Stefan Paskell's avatar

The sheeple approach, eh?

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Stephen Schiff's avatar

Yes, like Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi. But I would like to think that if it were to come to violence the forces of democracy would be smart enough to not allow their enemy to choose the time, place and conditions for battle.

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Stefan Paskell's avatar

Too late.

The 2024 elections gave the Prince permission to do just that. And it’s what the Trumpists are doing: choosing the time and place on a day-by-day basis in the Cold Civil War being waged here and now.

L.A.’s just the warm-up. The outcome is quite likely to be the declaration of an insurrection, based upon the projected demonstrations planned nationwide. And he’s got the Army in D.C.

They’ve lined up their funding: Cryptocurrency, to the extent it’s not Musk or Bezos or Zuckerberg or one of our other new gods/multibillionaires. The three branches are in the hands of a single person. It’s not the “future” any more.

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Daniel J Armstrong's avatar

Brilliant choice.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

What legitimacy? It never had any to begin with.

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TomD's avatar

They did win an election.

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Joseph David Marsden's avatar

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, First Sentence:

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

Seems as though if you shall not "hold any office, civil or military, under the United States" you shall not be President.

That is, if the Constitution matters at all.

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Stefan Paskell's avatar

The Constitution is like a patent: to circumvent it, one invents around it. I wonder if the pardon Trump issued to the insurrectionists serving him in 2020 annuls the 14th Amendment?

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TomD's avatar

Tell it to the Supreme Court, who ruled otherwise. I point out that DJT was charged with three flavors of fraud by Jack Smith, but no counts of insurrection--though about a dozen Proud Boy and Oathkeeper defendants were... .

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Joseph David Marsden's avatar

Actually, they did not rule otherwise.

What I assume you are referring to is the decision in Trump v. Anderson regarding the State of Colorado's decision to exclude Trump from the Presidential Election ballot on the basis of the section of the Constitution that I quoted above. The ruling held that,"Because the Constitution makes Congress, rather than the States, responsible for enforcing Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates, we reverse."

So they held that the State of Colorado did not have standing to enforce that section of the Constitution, not that the ruling of the Colorado Supreme Court -- the highest legal authority to render a decision on the merits of the enforcement -- was wrong.

I think you gloss over the "given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof" verbiage. Trump even before the Election was making all sorts of squawks about how the January 6 insurrectionists -- including those convicted of sedition -- were political prisoners and should be released, and of course he pardoned them all when he (falsely) assumed the role of President.

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TomD's avatar

I agree in principal, but whoever gets sworn in as POTUS is POTUS, absent impeachment and conviction. Maintaining that Trump is not president because the Congress should have prevented him from running or being sworn in is a pure waste of time.

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leave my name off's avatar

Interesting that SCOTUS Thomas's wife Ginny was in on it with financial support for some insurrectionist attendees.

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TomD's avatar

I expected Ginny to be indicted.

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Brian's avatar

And if the Constitution falls, the Bill of Rights goes with it including the second amendment.

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Kathleen Pirquet's avatar

Thank you for mentioning this!

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Susan Hofstader's avatar

But to speak of “democracy” you cannot skip over “demos”—the people were not persuaded that Trump was a criminal/insurrectionist. We can speak of losing Constitutional order and the rule of law, but not “democracy” when the people are on the other side. If you think the people are unfit (because they are ignorant and bigoted) to rule, what then?

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Joseph David Marsden's avatar

51% of a population deciding to kill and eat the other 49% would be an example of democracy in action, so I don't view democracy as humanity's highest end.

Nominally, ours is a government where individual rights -- like the right not to be killed and eaten -- are enshrined at a level that is strongly insulated against democratic action. Sometimes the mechanisms for protecting rights in this way gets morphed into anti-democratic rules that don't really protect rights, like forbidding convicted felons from participating in elections or forbidding seditionists from holding political office.

I tend to think that such things, while well-intended, don't really belong: yes, it is generally a good idea for evil people to be excluded from choosing or participating in government ... but why have an inert authority decide this rather than the people -- ?

Still, it IS embedded in the Constitution -- and therefore removed from democratic opinion -- that seditionists should not hold political office.

If we ignore that -- as we have -- it undermines the authority of the Constitution, even if only in an aspect that I don't really agree with.

And I believe that maintaining the authority of the Constitution is more important than addressing my quibbling over parts of it.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Actually, that "win" is highly questionable:

https://electiontruthalliance.org/

https://smartelections.us/

Trumpkopf claimed 2020 was stolen? Behind every accusation is a confession.

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Carleton Palmer's avatar

Wow, that is well said: "Behind every accusation is a confession."

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I wish I could claim credit for it, but I've seen it many times elsewhere on substack.

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Carleton Palmer's avatar

Shhh . . .quiet, I wouldn't have known - I'm new here.

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Susan Hofstader's avatar

No election is perfect—we’ve known that since 2000. Despite technological and legal changes since then, it still all comes down to systems and the people who implement them. Still, the 2024 election result was in line with consistent polling since 2021, and the fact that Democrats didn’t do as badly as they might have in 2022 (They did still lose the House, it was a loss even without a “red wave”) should not have been taken as proof that they were on the right track and that Biden could be re-elected.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

That is true. However, it's not a question of the usual margin of error to be found in typical elections. There have been some pretty serious statistical anomalies detected in a number of districts, especially in Pennsylvania and one upstate NY district.

As for that election in 2000, it was "won" by fewer than 400 votes, in one state where the "winner's" brother was the governor, and finally found "legit" by a hard reichwing friendly SCOTUS. In other words, it was a total sham, if not a scam. We was robbed.

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TomD's avatar

No one raised issues at the time. He was sworn in. He's POTUS.

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Mimi Stratton's avatar

Because they bought the lies perpetrated by Fox News and other right-wing sources like Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro. Propaganda is a powerful tool.

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Carleton Palmer's avatar

Correct. So is willful ignorance.

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Michiel Horn's avatar

Your point being? So did the Nazis in 1933.

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TomD's avatar

And how was that not a claim to legitimacy? Would Trump;'s regime be more or less legit if he had seized power by force?

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Fred Allen's avatar

Not by much! Certainly not a mandate.

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TomD's avatar

No mandate is a far cry from no legitimacy, which was the claim at the top of the thread. If Trump is not the legitimate POTUS, who is?

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Joseph David Marsden's avatar

I think technically the answer is Joe Biden.

The office is, among other things, Commander in Chief of the armed forces.

If you are in command in the military, you remain in command until you are relieved or incapacitated or killed.

If your "relief" is not eligible to relieve you, you remain in command.

Legally the answer is probably "no one," because Biden is not acting in the role of President. If there were a legal challenge over something that only the legitimated President had authority to do and if we had courts that >cough< believed in a literal interpretation of the Constitution >cough< I have a difficult time seeing how they could honestly rule that such an authority had been legitimately used.

Of course, honesty is not a strong quality in the current court system, particularly in the Supreme Court.

Practically we can see what the answer is, however bad that answer is.

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TomD's avatar

Our remedies are impeachment and conviction, period.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Eff off spam bot.

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Max Brauer's avatar

It's a twitter link... you know it's of, by and for morons.

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Andrew's avatar

Except with its 73 million cultists followers. And their spawn, most likely.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Yes to this and to everything in Krugman’s post. We have to keep in mind, unfortunately, that 77 million Americans are enjoying the hell out of Trump’s lawless actions. Those 77 million are the crux of the problem, and it’s hard to imagine any workable fix.

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Joseph Sandor's avatar

how does one lose something it never had?

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MM's avatar

Amen!

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AP's avatar

Quite amazing DOGE didn’t flag that $45m parade as wasteful…oh well, nobody’s perfect.

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Lisa Alexander's avatar

The money being spent n the parade could have been used for veterans’ care. That would be a better way to celebrate the military.

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Betty Ann Director's avatar

Or the food rotting in warehouses that was supposed to go to US AID. WASTE!

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

That's a feature not a bug.

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Colleen's avatar

I wonder if the military will be goose stepping all the way behind the tanks. The whole thought of it wants to make me vomit.

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Frau Katze's avatar

It’s a dictator thing. See Russia and North Korea.

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Bill Prange's avatar

Welcome to the world of Alice in Wonderland. The Red Queen has decided that words can mean anything she wants them to mean. Only she has been replaced by, what shall we call him, the Orange Preen? It is perfectly OK if some Capitol “tourists” are way more violent than the “rebels“ in LA. The governor of California can become a “criminal“ without breaking any laws. Of course, then it is up to The Don’s whim whether or not you yourself could be a “criminal”. When meaning becomes this fluid then it becomes impossible to make a decision based on reason, or even common sense. Very handy for the Orange Preen’s court.

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Max Brauer's avatar

It's a stage for iron-fist militarism. I would be ZERO percent surprised if this is his official launch party for martial law and total government by decree.

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AP's avatar

So like, instead of the promised DOGE dividend all we’re getting is a parade/party? Or you mean Elon and Qatar are splitting the bill to kiss up?

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Max Brauer's avatar

“But always — do not forget this, Winston — always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — for ever.”

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Not if I can help it! I do >not<, nor will I ever, love Big Brother.

It's a great reminder of the imperative that we continue to Rise! Resist! ✊✊✊

The next nationwide rally is this Saturday, June 14, yes >that< June 14, be there or be square!

Let's ruin Chump's B'day. We need 3.5% or the population, or around 12,000,000 people to be present. So bring all your friends and families. Spread the word as far and wide as possible. Let's all get out there with a Howard Beale spirit and yell "We're as mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!".

https://www.nokings.org/

P.S. Stay the hell away from D.C.! Don't give him an excuse to declare martial law!

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ASBermant's avatar

And don’t forget to wear a mask at the rally. Trump can take his “NO MASKS” and shove it up his big fat ass.

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Max Brauer's avatar

Meet me in Room 101. I was told there would be snacks there.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Ah yes, the place where there is no darkness. Trumpkopf and his Evil Klown Krew has their own "Ministry of Love".

Edit: Oh yes, and rats are no snack!

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Max Brauer's avatar

The rats trucked in from Twentynine Palms are highly skilled and bring their own condiments.

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Ben's avatar

They aren't rats. Marines are Americans just like us. They've been put into an intolerable position by Trump. I hope they have the courage to refuse to shoot other Americans if it comes to that.

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Max Brauer's avatar

Self-selected Tough Guys from rural authoritarian backgrounds, trained for violence and obedience to orders. Not deep critical thinkers.

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LHS's avatar

What would be Trump's Room 101? A place where he is ignored, meaningless and irrelevant for the rest of his life.

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Max Brauer's avatar

...and the only food and drink is kale smoothies.

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JesseBesse's avatar

Solitary confinement

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

And in total poverty. He's never tasted that before.

And preferably only in the company of Rudy - the other irrelevant dictator.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

They have shown already that they don’t need excuse.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Well, yes and no. King MAGA hasn't officially declared martial law just yet, even though he's acting it out in a thus far limited way.

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Michiel Horn's avatar

Thank you, George, or should I say Eric Blair?

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Max Brauer's avatar

call me Max. Hero of democracy in my longtime hometown of Hamburg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Brauer

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Peter's avatar

Trump has turned 4000 untrained weekend warriors and 500 trained killers loose on the people of Los Angeles. He made no provision to feed or house them so they are sleeping on concrete floors. That means that not only are they all on edge, now they are tired and hungry. It's only a matter of time before one or more of them snaps and empties their machine gun into a crowd. And then what? If he is not immediately impeached and removed, our democracy is lost forever. Or at least until we can turn our collective rage on elected Republicans and vote every one of them out.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

I'm seeing a lot of disdain for the protests above. That is not good. It is the only legal, Constitutional avenue open to those of us who do not want to live in a Police State. I will be out there on Saturday with a lot of other protestors committed to keeping it peaceful and maybe just a little classy.

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Peter's avatar

As will I. I want Trump and his MAGA thugs to see millions of us peacefully protesting him and his delusions of grandeur. He is a small, broken little man, the more of us that he sees are against him, the more it hurts his fragile ego.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

The other thing we can do is not watch his big, bloated parade. There will be plenty of clips available which won't count toward his ratings.

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Peter's avatar

I will only watch clips if something big happens, like the damn reviewing stand collapses or if they show empty stands along the route or if one of these monster tanks so damages a bridge over the Potomac that the bridge collapses.

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Theresa Farmer's avatar

Remember they get extremely upset when ordinary citizens rally to support marginalized people and march in support of democracy. Please keep things peaceful. No doubt the Jan. 6th folks will be out to pay for their pardons. This is our country.

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Peter's avatar

We can be sure that almost every one of the troublemakers is a former J6 terrorist or some rando incel who wishes he had been there. They will be at many protests trying to incite violence. It'll suck for them if real protesters catch them before they can really act and turn them over to Trump's stormtroopers.

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Lee Peters's avatar

The NoKings.org website map shows an extraordinary array of planned protests, including ones in rural red communities. Even if those turn out to be only one or two people, they are willing to stick their necks out in hostile territory.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

I live out amid the cotton fields in rural SW GA. I'm going to Tallahassee to participate. 50 miles away.

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Carol C's avatar

The protest I will attend will be a single file line of people sitting in chairs, seven miles long, 7,000 people expected. Sitting there for two hours. Finished at 2 p.m. Hard to find any violent potential in that.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

I think you are missing the point of the protests. They are not meant to kick ICE out of LA - they cannot, but to put visible people behind the opposition to tRump.

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Peter's avatar

And to make sure that the ICE gestapo know they are being watched and recorded...and everything can and will be used against them in a future court of law.

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Celia's avatar

You need to study the history of movements for social change. Protests are an important part of that. They build community and solidarity, they show the majority that many millions of people are against what is happening, they help build confidence of people who aren't sure about things, they get the attention of lawmakers, and you know what? They piss the hell out of Trump and demoralize him. What are you proposing, from your armchair?

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TomD's avatar

But if your protest sign promotes kicking ICE out of LA...?

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Stephen Brady's avatar

I think expressing that sentiment is OK, but we cannot be the ones to start any violence.

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M. A. Porter's avatar

Amen to all your posts.

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TomD's avatar

I'm not talking law. i'm talking message, including propaganda. Why help them?

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TomD's avatar

ICE are doing what the law authorizes, although, as with everything Trump tries, they're doing it badly.

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TomD's avatar

Amid all Trump's lies, there are several with a through line from the beginning. That all migrants are criminals sent here by their governments to murder and rape us has a long pedigree.

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Celia's avatar

Are you going to Maverick County TX?

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Peter, those weekend warriors are not untrained ... and they are residents of the the city they defend. The people on the streets are their friends, family and neighbors, on the streets and neighborhoods where they live.

We need to support them in their role to protect all from those who would escalate this to blood and chaos. We must not taunt or shame, but allow them to be the guardrail. We must remain peaceful in the face of those who taunt us. We must let higher minds and goals prevail.

We must also remind them that they must also stand against those who would give orders in conflict with their oath.

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chris lemon's avatar

The national guard may be trained for some sorts of police work, the Marines are not. It is criminally insane to use Marines for domestic police work. They're trained to kill people and break things, not for guarding buildings. You don't need an order from the top to start chaos. All it takes is for one person, any person, to start shooting, and you can get a chain reaction with many casualties.

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David Grinberg's avatar

FWIW I'm an old Marine and this is correct. Very few Marines are trained in anything vaguely like crowd control or police actions. We are trained to fight. Deploying Marines to a US city like this is massively unfair to the Marines. And I have no doubt that if things "go wrong", Trump et al will be happy to blame the individual Marine rather than their own poor leadership.

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George Patterson's avatar

"For might makes right; until they see the light, they've got to be protected, all their rights respected, 'til someone we like can be elected." - Tom Lehrer

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Randy Mihm's avatar

Marines are trained to guard our embassies all over the world and have swore an oath to the Constitution.

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

And to protect citizens, not to take arms against them.

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Agreed, use of Marines for this is inappropriate, and Marines themselves know it.

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Peter's avatar

They are not being deployed to protect us they are being deployed to intimidate us and to protect the masked dickless thugs that make up Trump's gestapo. So if I encounter them, I will taunt them. I will insult them. And I will ask them why they have sold their souls to Trump's police state.

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M. A. Porter's avatar

Yes to your last sentence. But no to the taunting and insulting. That will get you nowhere. But an impassioned, loud speech about their ability to walk off their jobs, yes. Remember, it is an all-volunteer military. They could be charged as AWOL. But not all of them all at once.

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Peter's avatar

But oh it will be ever so cathartic. And in this ugly world we need catharsis.

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

I would like to encourage your not to do that. They are being put in a difficult place, slow walked by a series of legitimate orders to one that is not.

We must remind them of their oath and right to disobey illegitimate orders, appeal to the truth they know and their better angels.

Lead them to the higher ground over instigating anger and supporting the lie they've been told by 'leaders' who are the true insurrectionists.

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Celia's avatar

Were they a ‘guardrail’ at Kent State and Jackson State?

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Yes and no, Nixon was not attempting to militarized against US citizens ... yet we had Republicans in office with spines to oust him from office. And the Ohio called up the National Guard, not Nixon.

This time not so much. We have a spineless crew who will increasingly allow the despot to walk all over the Constitution, and a president trying to use state guard against its citizans and Governor. Hence the growing public unrest we now experience.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Anyone they murder will become a martyr. They can't keep us down forever. We will be back. Democracy will be restored - it's inevitable - we're the U.S. of A., it's in our DNA.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Maybe, but my level of confidence in that outcome is far lower than yours. I think Trump might make the mistake of adding gay people to his list of targets. The train on persecuting gay people left the station a long time ago, no matter what Hegseth thinks. Everyone now has loved ones they know are gay. Trump going that route is the only plausible ray of hope I see for breaking his stranglehold on 77 million Americans.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Oh that's coming soon enough. I mean, they've already targeted LGBTQ+ for elimination in various government entities, especially the military. Will they go as far as Schicklgruber and put them in camps along with "illegal aliens"? I doubt that, but who knows? I'm not prepared to put anything past TrumPox and his Evil Klown Kar of a misadministration.

Regardless, we'll be out there on Saturday, let's see what happens.

It's a great reminder of the imperative that we continue to Rise! Resist! ✊✊✊

The next nationwide rally is this Saturday, June 14, yes >that< June 14, be there or be square!

Let's ruin Chump's B'day. We need 3.5% or the population, or around 12,000,000 people to be present. So bring all your friends and families. Spread the word as far and wide as possible. Let's all get out there with a Howard Beale spirit and yell "We're as mad as hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore!".

https://www.nokings.org/

P.S. Stay the hell away from D.C.! Don't give him an excuse to declare martial law!

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

12M would be a good start, but I think the 3.5% number comes from places where a significant majority of the general population was inclined to oppose the offending government. In this case, roughly half the population thinks Trump is a hero, and well over half the dominant cohort (white Americans, 60% of whom voted for the felon). So, I suspect we need lot more than 3.5% to succeed. More like 8% to 12%. Just a guess, of course.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I expect us to hit that 3.5% this Saturday, so we'll see what effect that has. We're only 140 days into this coup, and already we've had numerous demonstrations, plus the one coming up in just 4 days. We're just getting warmed up. He's actually polling below 50% approval, by a lot, depending on which poll you're looking at.

I'd say the percentage of the population who think he's a hero is closer to around 30 - 33%. Remember that 1/3 of eligible voters didn't even bother to vote at all. Maybe all this will finally wake them up.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Maybe, but I think the ones who didn’t vote are more likely to break forbTrump than for the opposition. In any case, we must do what we can

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

I think large numbers in key areas ... think ports of Trade, commerce, international borders. LA county is huge, add San Francisco. New Jersey, New York, and yes my own little Detroit.

No need to bring it to the Capitol, no sign of intelligent life there.

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Stan's avatar

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him... In this way you pour fiery coals on his head. Keep conquering the evil with the good." Romans 12:20, 21.

Those fiery coals are not punitive, they are an allusion to how metals were refined at the time. You may get a change of heart by treating your enemy right. In this case, showing them that you aren't their real enemy.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Uh… this works only with people who have a conscience. Trump and his acolytes don’t have consciences. They enjoy persecuting people they don’t like.

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Stan's avatar

I wasn’t referring to Trump’s cultists, but the national guardsmen on the street, who might hesitate to shoot protesters who have shown them some kindness. I’m not near the trouble, but from the TV it appears that a few among the protesters are determined to cause a lot of noise and damage. I say “among” but it’s possible these are the “paid protesters” Trump mentions, conveniently omitting that HE is the one paying them. EVERY accusation is a confession, take that to the bank.

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Lance Khrome's avatar

The NG/ICE contingent had little to do, as the LAPD did its usual number on protestors and journalists...NOBODY can bust heads, shoot "non-lethal" — LOL! — munitions, and fling flash-bangs and tear gas as well and as punitively as the Boys in Blue. They needed to polish their skills since the Rodney King trial-verdict riots, and here is the perfect opportunity. And the pathetic Mayor Karen Bass lecturing people about "violence", when "law enforcement" are kicking the shit out of her constituents...Jaysus!

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M. A. Porter's avatar

Or they will walk off the job. This is possible. Remember, this is an all-volunteer military.

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Kim Nesvig's avatar

Remember, Trump’s minions (the Proud Boys, for example) crave violence and will start fires, throw bricks, and instigate fights to provide Trump with fictitious rationalization for his rampant lawlessness.

One thing I hope for is that the guardsmen and marines, being so recklessly deployed, will themselves protest against being used as tools for Trump’s authoritarian appetite. We know they were sent to LA without even arrangements for a place to sleep. The National Guard has historically entered disaster areas to help the citizenry. Most Guardsmen joined and have stayed in the guard out of a sense of service to the public and, frankly for some additional income and benefits.

Only on a few deeply regrettable occasions have they been deployed against Americans. Don’t be surprised if the guardsmen and marines express growing resentment for being used.

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Edmund Clingan's avatar

Flashback to the summer of 1932: Chancellor Franz von Papen uses the excuse of Nazi Stormtrooper violence to take control of the state of Prussia, ending Germany's thousand-year federal tradition. Over the following two years, Hitler destroys the autonomy of the other German states.

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foofaraw & Chiquita(ARF!)'s avatar

Since this $2B - $3B for the National Guard isn't budgeted, those in the know are suggesting that there will be National Guardsmen across America working for free for much of the remaining year.

Maybe that will open a few eyes even now, if the word gets out.

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Max Brauer's avatar

The Big Blowout Budget Barf has infinite money for ICE raids and the military. Because that's what a total coup requires.

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David Betts's avatar

I think the BBBB contains language that allows the president to use appropriations as a slush fund to spend however -- including so called "law enforcement."

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

The word will definitely get out as soon as they start asking where the hell their paychecks are.

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TomD's avatar

The usually non-partisan military.com is very unimpressed with Hegseth.

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TomD's avatar

They ran an article on popular nicknames for Hegseth among active duty personnel. "Kegseth" and "DUIhire" are examples.

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JesseBesse's avatar

I like kegsbreath

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TomD's avatar

I'm hearing he'll change the Harvey Milk to the Harvey Wallbanger...

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foofaraw & Chiquita(ARF!)'s avatar

That's just sweat from the alcohol...

Or the DTs.

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David Grinberg's avatar

With respect, Kim, I would expect little to no expression of protest from the troops. Yes, the deployment is reckless and wrong (see my other posts in this thread), but I can tell you that when I disagreed with an order (unless it was clearly an illegal order) I said "yes, sir, three bags full" and did my duty, and every serviceman and woman I know felt pretty much the same - and we had enormous trust in our superior officers to not issue an illegal order. In my entire military career I was subject to only one illegal order which I rejected and I was quickly backed up by the rest of the chain of command - I even received a commendation for disobeying that particular order. When this all goes wrong, please know that it will not be because the troops are bloodthirsty or automatons, or necessarily supporters of this President. They are just doing their duty.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

With the Roberts court, it is very hard to discriminate between legal and illegal orders. Even the brass, who are well educated and generally supportive of the Constitution, will have difficulty deciding that any particular order is illegal.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I sure hope you're right about this.

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Vasilis Papavassiliou's avatar

No one should go to this parade. Let’s fill the parks in the area if the weather permits.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

We'll have our own parade: https://www.nokings.org/

Be there or be square!

P.S. Stay the hell away from D.C.! Don't give him an excuse to declare martial law!

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George Patterson's avatar

I'm afraid that staying away from D.C. won't do the job. DonnyJon will have the Proud Boys there,pretending to be us, and burning things down.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Actually that's all the more reason to avoid D.C. Let the PB's do their thing - and let them be the only ones there to be arrested or shot.

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Cinna the Poet's avatar

As true as this is, *any non-zero amount* of violence and setting fires is something Trump can spin effectively. Mexican flags among the protests will also play well for him with the median voter. The protestors are handing Trump a free win and an easy distraction from his gutting of the economy.

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Max Brauer's avatar

Protest is American. Patriotic. Period. You suggest silently taking the boot-to-face?

The people causing disruptive violence in LA are:

- ICE

- Anarchists who've been roaming the West Coast for many years

- Right wing agitators

Democrats have conducted HUNDREDS of peaceful "Hands Off" marches this year.

One True Holy Salty Greasy Orange Toadstool doesn't want that.

He wants CHAOS.

That's how he gets to invoke martial law.

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Peaceful or not he is going to do it ... I'm sure it was considered over the Tesla protests ... had Elon been better liked ....

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I regret that I have but one life to give for my country.

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Julian Janssen's avatar

You are on the wrong side here. It's gonna happen to some extent. And what we need is solidarity. No breaking ranks.

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Cinna the Poet's avatar

It's inevitable, I agree. Protests in the internet era are leaderless, so there's no way to prevent all violence and vandalism. My point is, that means it would be better if there were no protests. But of course it's inevitable that there will be protests also. A very bad situation, with no way out that I can see. Trump will simply win on this one. That also looks inevitable.

The only way I could see this not going his way is if innocent people get killed by the feds. But even that might not be enough given that the protestors have already been made to look like the bad guys to normies.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Try as you might to discourage us, we will not be discouraged.

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Cinna the Poet's avatar

Yes, I know. Good luck.

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George Patterson's avatar

We've already had one Australian reporter and one BBC reporter shot; one with a plastic bullet and the other with a rubber bullet. The BBC reporter had to be hospitalized. And that's by National Guardsmen. Someone will be killed within half a day of the Marines deploying.

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Agreed, but don't you think this is the stuff that allows leaders to rise?

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Cinna the Poet's avatar

I hope so... but it didn't happen in Occupy, it didn't happen in 2020, it's hard to see why it would happen now.

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Because the guardrails were still in place, Congress was not completely shut down as it is now and we had just elected a new administration. We have traveled light years into the Upside Down since then.

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Lee Peters's avatar

And SCOTUS hadn’t invented presidential immunity yet.

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Max Brauer's avatar

So the answer is... sit on your thumb and wait for the knock on the door. Hello, Dr Niemöller, we know you're in there!

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Cinna the Poet's avatar

Actually, springboarding off your analogy, I think helping undocumented immigrants evade ICE is something people can do if they really want to improve the situation by defying the law. I'm afraid mass protests will hurt much more than they help right now.

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Max Brauer's avatar

The shit-burners are pros, hired to give Cheeto his Reichstag Fire. LA was chosen specifically because it is Enemy Territory.

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leave my name off's avatar

And because he knows deep down that Gavin Newsom is a serious rival that would kick his ass in the next presidential election. A pissing contest to show who's boss.

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Max Brauer's avatar

The One True Holy Salty Greasy Orange Toadstool may remain in office, but he won't be running against Newsom or anyone else in that situation.

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Chris's avatar

If there's anything the summer of 2020 should've taught us, it's that the narrative can operate completely free of facts on the ground. We saw video after video of cops assaulting people who were doing nothing; cops grab guy in wheelchair and throw him to the ground, cops drive through a residential neighborhood and pepper-spray people who're literally just standing there on their front porch, cop lines up a journalist even as the guy is filming him and shoots him with a rubber bullet. None of it mattered. The official line, which at this point is as much ingrained through repetition as anything else, was that violent anarchists were starting things and the poor beleaguered cops were just "responding" as best they could. We had a coast-to-coast nationwide police riot in 2020, and they weren't blamed for any of it.

If they're determined to turn this violent, a lack of fires or Mexican flags isn't going to make a difference.

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Celia's avatar

Sit back and do nothing and see where that gets us

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John Howard's avatar

I've already said this previously today: Many mainstream and indie commentators see the federalisation of the Cali National Guard and deployment of Marines to LA as a warning to or foretaste of the White House response to upcoming national protests--that seems to be your take as well. My concern is that we'll soon see what took place on January 6--not a deployment of federal troops (which were, in fact, held back at that time), but a call to action to the militias and other MAGA gangs to oppose protestors, giving then an excuse to deploy actual military service members. That, in my view, would be the worst-case scenario for June 14th--and a tipping point into a fascist police state.

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Interesting. Kinzinger is calling for Newsom to call up the rest of the states National Guard to keep them under CA control ... unless the despot supersedes him again.

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

That's a great idea. I hope Newsom listens.

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BlueGrouse's avatar

Many Governors already co-signed a letter yesterday in support of Gov Newsom.

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Very good news, we need as many Governors and Attorneys General to sign on as possible.

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foofaraw & Chiquita(ARF!)'s avatar

I'm waiting for Trump's (paid) "Jan. 6 Army" to appear any moment...

Trump never gives anything (like pardons) for free.

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JesseBesse's avatar

Believe they’re already working for ICE as we found out

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JesseBesse's avatar

Thank you for correcting me! The sad thing was with how crazy things are going is that I fully believed it was something they’d do!

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foofaraw & Chiquita(ARF!)'s avatar

Well, Snopes said they aren't OFFICIALLY working for ICE, but some could be in some manner.

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David Grinberg's avatar

Good point RE Juneteenth. Something to look out for.

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Thomas Formanek's avatar

Among other things, California is the desired destination as the biggest blue state and the place of Gavin Newsom, a principle rival if we ever hold elections again.

I'm in my early 70s and most of my acquaintances simply are just going about life as if nothing untoward has happened. We used to be a nation of voters. Now I believe we are a nation of distracted, acquiescent consumers who simply want comfort.

Almost no one seems to understand that mass mobilization is urgently needed. That safety is more likely if tens of millions take to the streets.

There will always be the frightened and the apathetic who don't deserve a democratic republic. But we need to recognize how far things have broken down. Schlessinger wrote The Imperial Presidency 50 years ago. Congress is bought and sold, uncompetitive and complaiscent. They are no longer a proud body jealous of their power. SCOTUS is largely a collection of mediocraties.

It's up to us. A screen-watching rabble obsessed with our own comfort and acquisitions.

Oh boy.

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Gordon Reynolds's avatar

For what it’s worth, I’m your age and I have NOT turned my attention away from this unfolding menace. I live in Northern California, the current front line of this battle. As it continues, people who are now ‘sleeping’ through the turmoil will be forced to face it when it’s practically on their doorstep. It’s how we finally react to this treachery that matters most.

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Anthony O Neill's avatar

Words fail in these circumstances.

I am disturbed by media who report current affairs in the US as merely a weird-but-mandated process of ‘democracy’. It so closely resembles the usurpation of democracy in 1930s Europe..

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Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Media needs to keep the feed leaning to the peaceful side of this protest and not inflate the misbehavior of the few who take advantage of chaos to loot.

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Robert Jaffee's avatar

“But the events unfolding in Los Angeles as you read this and, I fear, the events likely to unfold across much of America soon, quite possibly this weekend, suggest that the motivations of Trump and his cronies go deeper than mere (mere!) sadism. They want to use false claims of chaos to justify a power grab that, if successful, would mark the end of the American experiment.”

Exactly professor! This isn’t about crime or an alien invasion, this is the REVENGE OF THE CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES!!!!

The Christian Nationalists and segregationists have been fighting this war since Nixon’s Southern Strategy. These religious zealots have been plotting a takeover for decades, and while they may have lost most of the major battles, they are winning the war.

When we removed confederate statues and renamed confederate bases, they responded with attacks on DEI and affirmative action, wrapped in the American flag, while carrying a cross; fascism at its finest!

And now they’re trying to whitewash all minority groups, and erasing their accomplishments from the history books because it doesn’t comport with their idealism of America as a white nationalist nation, built on Christian values. As though these people understand the definition of Christian or any values for the matter.

Additionally, is it me, or does anyone else sense that all of his White Nationalist Affirmative Action hires for cabinet positions are mere deflections; all unqualified rubes meant to detract us from their real goals; destroying the administrative state, and replacing it with a fascist authoritarian kakistocracy. The MSM follows all the shenanigans of people like Noem, Hegseth and Homan, while the real Heritage and DOGE goons lay waste to our institutions and vital systems.

Bottom line, this is the fight Trump wants. Protesters carrying Mexican flags, while MAGA manufactures a crisis that will allow Trump to mobilize the military for domestic use. Trump has already said the quiet part out loud; “we will use the military everywhere.” And since, we have more than a dozen unconstitutional outrages of the day, each individual event goes unnoticed or underreported.

This was the goal; flood the zone with as much nonsense as possible, while leaving most of us perennially “dazed and confused”; using the MSM to make disseminating all of this information impossible. And having a willing and complicit MSM, doesn’t help our cause. IMHO!…:)

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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I think you're right. This is indeed a continuation of the Civil War.

When Jefferson Davis signed the treaty ending the Civil War, a lot of Confederates were enraged and considered him a traitor. That was when all that talk about a "lost cause" began, along with the Klan, etc. Tricky Dickie and his "southern strategy" offered them the chance to "regroup", and they did just that - in pretty spectacular fascist fashion.

So, here we are, Civil War 2.0. The complicated part, or at least one of the major ones, is that it's no longer contiguous northern vs. southern states - the antagonists are scattered across the landscape.

I'm not so sure the Nazi hires were meant as a distraction, they are in fact part of the larger machinations to dismantle the administrative state and replace it with the fascist authoritarian kakistocracy. They are, after all, creating the conditions under which the Criminal in Chief can declare one fake emergency after another to usurp powers otherwise inaccessible. The lamestream media is certainly no help, but we don't really need them so much anymore, being that substack has a lot of their best writers, and it's growing every day.

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leave my name off's avatar

I looked up Franco & the Spanish Civil War earlier. Project 2025 represents US version of Catholic conservatives, business people, rural land owners against the multi-cultural young people, who happen to be a great deal of our urban labor force today, same as in Spain in the last century, but Spanish peasants and not immigrants were the laboring population.

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Fred's avatar

There are a lot of factors leading to this situation, but an underlying problem is that a large portion of the US is civically illiterate. It’s not just social media. Social studies classes in schools don’t adequately address or they misinform on democracy, branches of government, Constitution, voting, etc

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Yes, but they are civically illiterate on purpose. They reject educaton purpose. There is no fixing them. Might be just barely possible to outvote them in 2026, but very few MAGAts will be converted.

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Fred's avatar

I agree but we have to somehow educate our kids for the future. If nothing else they should vote.

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Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

I wish there were a way to do that, but there isn’t. Red states, where education is most needed, are giving tax dollars to private, white, evangelical schools and ignorant home schoolers, so it’s getting worse, not better. I don’t see that changing the foreseeable future.

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Carsten Schmidt's avatar

Btw it’s worth watching the LAPDs press conference following the weekend. ICE did not inform LAPD of their major activities so no LAPD was on site when dozens of heavily armed goons from ICE showed up at the fashion district (not fashionable it’s a whole sale area off downtown with hundreds of little stores). Once the situation escalated ICE called LAPD for support but LAPD had a hard time getting to the area because ICE created chaos and threw smoke and tear gas. So this was either utter incompetence from ICE or likely as you point out, a planned way to escalate the situation.

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Chris's avatar

The rest of the law enforcement community has always loathed ICE. They act like out-of-control frat boys with trigger fingers, who've just found their daddy's gun after binge-drinking all night.

Keep in mind that this is American law enforcement, which isn't a terribly professional community in the first place, leaning heavily towards "over-armed and under-trained," and has an especially uninspiring record when it comes to following laws and respecting civil liberties. The fact that ICE is too much even for most of *them* speaks volumes for how unstable and dangerous they are.

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Stephen Wunderlich's avatar

True.

But seriously fuck him.

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

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jay teitelbaum's avatar

So where are our senators and congressmen and business leaders? Hiding ! Why? Because they want to reap the spoils of this Machiavellian scheme!

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Max Brauer's avatar

Because they are highly informed about Second Amendment Remedies that await the families of those who 'create difficulties'.

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jay teitelbaum's avatar

What does that even mean?

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George Patterson's avatar

It means that the MAGA crowd will torture and kill their families if they step out of line.

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Chungaum's avatar

The most powerful and effective image I have seen in the last few days was footage of Hispanic restaurant workers with bowls of milk wiping and assisting a couple of helpless police that had been hit by tear gas. It show humanity, irony and the moral weakness of the Trump position. We need more of that in the press showing the absurdity of Trumps actions, because Trump hates looking like a fool and eventually we will need those in the police and military to take a side. So when national guard and the marines show up beyond just peaceful resistance we must show them humanity and care. I know this sounds laughable but escalated resistance will only give him an excuse for more violence and fuel his hate driven base of supporters. My fear is that level of control and humanity if the face of oppression will not be possible.

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