Thank you for this. Out of everything that happened yesterday, the pardons were a kick in the stomach, even though I knew they were coming. All of those brave prosecutors, all of that evidence, all of those brave judges who did the right thing, and now it's done, just like that. I feel like I'm watching a banana republic, or some other country. This is no longer the United States that I grew up loving and caring about. It makes me sad. And scared.
Quite a few people writing here don't seem to have considered that "the news" doesn't generally follow who gets brought to justice after they do something wrong unless it becomes a high-interest story. I live in the Minneapolis area and there was local follow-up on who participated in the George Floyd riots and who got brought to justice if they'd broken the law. There were actually many outsiders who came here to cause the turmoil that ensued.
We never fully removed the shackles from the colonial period. There we were enslaving people as a way to prosperity. From the planters to the oligarchs it’s the same motive.
Paul, we knew what we were in for. My history isn’t the best but I’m trying to find a worst president in our brief history. I can’t. Andrew Johnson? Andrew Jackson? George W. Bush? No, the pale in comparison. So why this abomination?
When I do something that doesn’t go right, I tend to reflect and ask myself what was it I did wrong. I think this would be healthy to view it. It always takes two to tango. So let me play devil’s advocate for a moment. And I want to state that I’m not a die hard liberal. I’m not partisan although I seek democratic safe ports in storms.
In my opinion, the left has pushed our “woke” agendas as far then farther. Diversity is it really needed? I think not especially when you automatically categorize those of us who are Caucasian. I’m now accused of being privileged. That’s the result of CRT. I’m simply a small single proprietor business person but I’m frequently singled out as privileged. I’m tired of that shit. In this nation, we have made struggling white people the enemy and we don’t even realize it. Think about it before you outright reject it. There is more but that’s enough for now.
Example #1: I was seeking a booth at a democratic sponsored event once. I had to identify myself in categories. 1. Minority owned? 2. Woman owned? 3. Union friendly? 4. LBGTQ owned? Are you fricken kidding me? I’m a small single proprietor business. I didn’t quite fit in. This is what is destroying this nation.so we rebel and elect a mafia second rate demigod so destructive.
Your little personal anecdote doesn’t “prove” that democrats forced “woke” on the country. You’ve become exactly the same as any fox viewer by accepting the republican fascist propaganda framing of democrats based on your feelings.
Democrats and liberals persuaded themselves earlier in this century that changing demographics would bring about a “minority majority” who would bring Democrats back into power—instead what has happened is that many of those “minority” voters have aligned with Republicans. It turns out a lot of Latinos are actually white (descended from Spanish colonials), so that the supposed racial realignment was a mirage. In the meantime, Democrats and liberals have done a p*ss poor job of selling themselves to voters.
Again, we have declared war on white people that is the Democratic Party agenda. But most will never understand this tid bit. But it’s true. That ole pendulum shift and now it has shifted to the far right. We as humans and we are in this sub brut category, we don’t ever know when enough is enough.
And don’t be concerned about me. I have no where else to turn but to the very imperfect Democratic Party agenda. I will never move to the right. But I despise the left side politics. Read my book, “Donald’s Vanity Tantrums.” I know what I’m talking about.
Are you not differentiating between groups who are working specifically with those named groups, and ones with the general public? And these people have it rough too, and may have different experiences than you. I’ve sometimes thought it would be nice if all groups could attend these meetings, but I don’t begrudge them. Also, I have come to realize that being white, and probably male, does confer some privileges.
I understand the chafing at being looked at as the enemy, but maybe people are identifying a situation, rather than targeting you. And your need to be a part of the conversation.
Trump might still have a way to go to knock James Buchanan (Lincoln's immediate predecessor) off his pedestal as the consensus Worst President of All Time.
Oh, bullshit. That was no litmus test. That was a rather simplistic way of slotting you into a marketing category so they know what buttons to push when they want you to give them money. Don’t attribute to malice what actually is unimaginative fund raising techniques.
I think people have lumped in Jan 6 with the other rioting and mob violence that took place in 2020. I still think about how liberals downplayed the more violent aspects of the George Floyd protests (I know I did), the hypocrisy over Covid, and the sudden rise in crime/homicide hurt Democrats’ credibility when it comes to criticizing Jan 6.
Why do people consider the violence associated with the murder of George Floyd to be analogous to the January 6th assault on the Capitol? The one was domestic violence, the other an attempt to overthrow the government. Apples and oranges, folks. They are not analogous.
A Brit here, I would support what Dan is saying about why Trump pardonning the majority of the Capitol protestors won't generate much outrage for long. I'm definitely on the left, I cheered the dumping of the slave owner's statue in Bristol dock - but I saw lots of violent riots, attacks on police and property damage at the BLM protests in the USA (on the BBC news not Fox) and very little punishment seemed to follow from those riots. Was that because the riots were in a "good" cause? It must have been terrifying for the shopkeepers, police and firefighters under attack, nevertheless. Because the January 6th events didn't achieve the worst they could have, (which was definitely the aim of some there) and people have short memories, I think most of the public will say "water under the bridge" and move on to the next crisis. That's not to say you're not in very deep trouble with the Fantasist-in-Chief and the billionaires circling for spoils. We are horrified over here.
BLM protests involved millions of people in hundreds of cities. 99% of them peaceful. Still, 1% of several million people is a few thousand people.
Lots of people have been punished for BLM-related activity. Many have been arrested and prosecuted (and I assume convicted), but it wasn’t one event, at one place, on one day, with one police force and one prosecutor’s office, it’s not an easy way to track, or to find a single list of defendants and results. But do a little Googling and you will find plenty.
But there were still key differences:
- Demonstrators were demanding government DO something, i.e. get police to stop killing Black people.
- They weren’t trying to overturn an election.
- Neither the President of the United States or any other official with pardon power, to my knowledge, called people who committed vandalism “heroes,” “patriots,” etc., argued that they were being persecuted, and such.
It’s a very lame and bad-faith “whatabout” to compare the two. In this the President (at the time) incited his supporters to go to the Capitol in order to overturn an election he lost. 160 police officers were injured, six died at least indirectly. Trump subsequently 1) Denied he had any responsibility; 2) claimed it was antifa; 3) said these people were being treated very unfairly; and now 4) pardoned them. Which would belie several of his arguments. What he did was free his thugs, and send the message that if you commit crimes on behalf of Trump, he will have your back. Serious moral hazard.
Yesterday was perhaps the worst, most shameful day in American history, which is saying something. January 6 was awful, but yesterday we put its architect back in power and he freed the criminals. Added to that, so many people who should know better are basically yawning at all this, or at least hoping for tax cuts and deregulation. I am so ashamed.
I’d say November 5 qualifies as most shameful, since what happened with the pardons was an entirely foreseeable consequence of what happened on November 5.
I'm a native Texan and retired police officer now living in Beaverton, a suburb of Portland. The demonstrations resulting from the murder of George Floyd here in Portland were like all mass demonstrations. They're unpredictable.
People within the demonstrations are still individuals with their own attitudes and desires beyond the immediate cause. Some almost certainly didn't care anything about George Floyd but enjoyed the energy and the ability to act out in various ways including committing crimes. While media coverage created the impression that downtown Portland was all but destroyed, the reality is that the physical damage was limited in scope.
As others have noted, the demonstrations were a response of outrage to a murder at the hands of people who had taken oaths to obey the dictates of the constitutions of the state of Minnesota and United States. The insurrectionists of January 6, 2021 were attempting to overthrow the Constitution in service of Donald Trump's anti-American ego and ambition.
I live in Lents, in Portland and , though I never went to an evening protest, I would say your description sounds spot on. Nuanced and thoughtful. Excellently said.
In my city the looters came out after the protesters went home and shops were closed. There was no violence against the police but plenty of violence against the protesters especially in Portland Oregon.
It's entirely possible that some of those George Floyd rioters were right-wing agitators. In fact, I'd say it was probable. January 6th was all about right-wing violence. They were trying to overthrow the government and kill people.
I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist but I am pretty sure this kind of thing has been going on for a long time. Certainly it happened in the sixties. It fits with their approach.
You. Lewis, are partly responsible for the nazi empowerment of Trump. You may be proud in this moment, but the damage coming from this is on your head.
I am. I also acknowledge that liberals and Democrats have damaged credibility with the much of the public (hence why Trump won in spite of all of his crimes, incompetence, and corruption.)
I just think the public perception of Jan 6 got lumped in with the chaos of 2020 and when people rightfully point out how bad the insurrection actually was.
I am sorry that you assume this is lying when I try to explain why Jan 6 didn’t prevent Trump’s reelection and why pardoning Jan 6ers won’t generate huge public backlash.
Please convince me of one thing that the Dems have done that will match the 'damaged credibility' and wrecking ball that the GOP, TFG and his maga supporting troupe of billionaires have done and will do to this country.
If you watch FOX you would think that the 2020 George Floyd protests were comparable to Jan 6. However, if you look outside of the FOX box, you would know that most of the protests were peaceful.
Most liberals that I know seek information from reliable sources. Most of the 2020 protests were peaceful.
But, yeah, Yglesias is definitely a site for you.
Matt Yglesias Is Confidently Wrong About Everything
Yglesias shouldn't be lionized as a genius OR dismissed out of hand. He's a really smart guy who thinks himself into stupid positions sometimes. (In fact, I think he would agree 100% with that assessment.)
His writing should be taken a la carte. It's almost impossible for him to be wrong about "everything" because in some sense he often disagrees with himself.
If you're being sincere it's a perfect example of why they win. All we can do is talk about our own "failures" while they stay laser focused on attacking us.
And we need to be unfair to ourselves, to make it fair, because otherwise we would be holding Republicans to too high of a standard.
You're right of course. But the Republicans >own< the low road. For some inexplicable reason, voters reward Republicans for bad behavior, and punish Democrats for it. It's nonsensical but true. If you mud wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, but the pig likes it, so you can't win.
I vote for Democrats. I support expanding social safety net programs and increasing taxes to properly fund government purchases and services. Pretty normal stuff.
Why do you choose not to read what was actually written and just to repeating the same unsubstantiated character attacks?
Dan Quail and Dan Quayle are different people. "Dan Quayle is an American retired politician who served as the 44th vice president of the United States from 1989 to 1993 under President George HW Bush." Just to be clear.
If people say terrible things people are going to assume they mean them. You think protesting racist police violence = overthrowing democracy. If you don't think that then get better at expressing yourself.
No they are not the same, and it is worth mentioning that people riot even for non-political reasons. When a football team wins or loses, sometimes there are riots, and some of those hooliganism results in no jail time. It doesn’t mean that any other rioters should escape prosecution or those who escaped prosecution are somehow bearing witness to double standards or to the rightness of some political cause. Just that local police sometimes let people go for whatever reason.
What is more important are the issues themselves. Did the Jan 6 rioters know what they were doing, namely their candidate lost an election, and rather than dealing with it peacefully and legally, they decided to use force to try to change the outcome? Or did they think they were overturning a perceived unfair election — egged on by Trump? In the BLM case, did the rioters commit unlawful acts? What were their motivations?
It is absolutely correct to call out that these are unrelated and incomparable. Just because there was a riot after Tottenham lost to Arsenal and most rioters were given a slap on the wrist doesn’t mean that it’s ok to loot someone’s store. Just because there were violence at BLM protests doesn’t mean it is right to use force to overturn an election. Just because the sitting president can legally pardon almost anyone and commute sentences doesn’t mean he should. It is imperative that we don’t justify actions on the basis of fairness and even legality alone. There should and must be other considerations.
Also, I am more than willing to give BLM movement a pass because 1) police actions in many of the instances were escalatory, greatly increasing the likelihood of confrontation and 2) not more than 50 years ago, many people of color (and their allies in the white community) were the target of disproportionate amounts of violence. The history of unilateral racial violence shape our perception and narratives about aggression and retaliation from African Americans: we are more likely to heighten our sense of threat when confronted by stories of civil disobedience, protests and civil unrest, which in turn shape our perceptions of the illegitimacy of the political causes that incited them.
Why do we view labor movements as benign, or sports riots as just a bit of fun gone wrong when we are more likely to see BLM movements as threatening the safety of neighborhoods and the businesses therein? What about white supremacy rallies or pro-life protests? Do we know what goes on in those rallies or do we assume that they are more “peaceful”, less threatening, and more appropriate for a modern economic development? I feel obligated to call out these cognitive biases so we can right-size our conversations about racial justice movements.
And there was a jump in violence in the preceding years, but that apparently didn’t happen because crime started declining afterwards?
And I am confused for suggesting that for some people the perception of Jan 6 could have been lumped in with the broader surge in violence of the same period.
(Also I did not “mix up” street violence with the attack on the Capitol. Just describing why the public might not have treated it with the gravity they should have.)
The hypocrisy over COVID may refer to public health officials saying mass gatherings to protest the killing of George Floyd should not be discouraged as a public health measure, because it was a good cause. It was not the place of public health officials to say what is a good cause—they could have instead advised that protests (whatever the subject matter) were not a public health hazard if they were limited to outdoors, during daylight hours, and made some effort at social distancing. It was known by then that sunlight effectively killed the virus (unfortunately the briefing where that was announced became better known for Trump’s suggestion that people drink disinfectant). But saying that COVID restrictions could be relaxed for BLM protests was what persuaded a lot of people that public health officials were biased, and that the pandemic was not as serious as they claimed.
I am just trying to understand why Jan 6 didn’t disqualify Trump for much of the public. (And I am still livid about Garland slow rolling the Jan 6 court case against Trump. FFS you had four years.)
Joe Biden was a very imperfect leader. And I suspect he never quite understood the danger of Trump and his minions. And too, McConnell was to interested keeping a strong Republican agenda not able to realize that Trump is not republican or democratic. He is nothing he has only the agenda of money. McConnell could have voted for impeachment and that would have ended Trump. What is it that prevents a person from understanding danger? Age? Agenda? Political orientation?
Republicans mastered propaganda long ago, staring with Nixon's "southern" dog whistle strategy. Or even further back to McCarthy's "Un-American activities" committee. The Democrats haven't caught up.
I am trying to understand this, too. Apparently democracy doesn’t mean much to a lot of people if they think they can save a quarter a gallon.
I’m a little frustrated with Garland, but I think a lot of people are overlooking the likelihood that 1) Aileen Cannon would have slow-walked the classified docs case no matter when she got it and 2) SCOTUS would have dragged its feet and conferred immunity even if they’d gotten the case a year or more earlier.
Ultimately, the fault is with the American people (the 49.6% of them, anyway), who knew all this about Trump and just didn’t care. It breaks my heart.
Every comment before this one did NOT resonate with me. This comment fits my feeling exactly. You are what some would call a complex asshole! You do seem to enjoy shaking upfolks.
I am an economist, people tend not to like us because we prod.
I am more concerned why something is going on rather than announcing that I think Trump is terrible (I actually think he is the Antichrist, but that is a rabbit hole on interpreting Revelations and how Greek culture influences the Bible.)
Own your words. You’re the one who compared liberal blindness to destruction of property in the George Floyd protests to outrage over the occupation and desecration of the building that houses the beating heart of our democracy.
Those who lump those events together either cannot or refuse to use their brains to make valid comparisons. How are civil rights protests that sometimes turned violent the same as a violent insurrection orchestrated by the sitting President to try to remain in power?
What I am describing is how many people plausible have equivocated the two things and thus downplayed Jan 6. I am not equivocating the two things, because they are vastly different in terms of public consequence.
I am upset people voted for Trump. I am upset many voters didn’t treat Jan 6 as disqualifying.
I was living in Europe when the 2020 protests took place. Got most of my information from my sister in Portland, NPR, the Guardian, and how Europeans were interpreting events in their media. I can tell you the Scandinavians were less positive about the events than Anglos.
People generally understand that some properties are more valuable than others. The Capitol is the beating heart of our democracy—how do you value that? It was forcibly taken from its rightful owners and desecrated with feces. How did that change its value? How does it compare to property damaged or destroyed in the George Floyd protests? Was that property sacred to our democracy? Did insurance not rebuild their value? How do you rebuild the value of the beating heart of democracy?
You’re not a serious person if you can’t think more deeply than comparing things that don’t compare.
What crime!! We're at a 50-year low! (Because, in part, unemployment is also at a 50-year low) Are the stats by all the local police lies all over the country of different political stripes lies???
Telling everyone to shelter at home an isolate but the also saying it was fine to gather in large groups in public to protest.
Then telling people that we were somehow protecting the public by keeping schools closed and reopening bars (much worse Covid vectors), some places kept schools closed long after the vaccines were rolled out. Emily Oster has been lambasted for pointing out learning loss is real.
Those things did negatively impact public trust in public health and school policy, things Democrats historically win on and have had credibility in.
All you are communicating is that you ask dishonest questions, ignore the substance of what is written, and then just throw unwarranted insults at people.
I know your comment wasn't particularly popular with this commenter base, Dan, but I think you're exactly right. Regardless of the facts of the George Floyd protests vs. Jan 6, the perception amongst the center and center-right is that they are two sides of the same coin. This has probably been helped along by Fox News and right wing media in general.
There was urban, racially charged violence, which was not controlled due to inadequate resources and unwillingness to utilize violence to combat it. There was also a planned violent attack on our federal government to circumvent our democratic way of life. There is no equivalency between the two.
10,000 people were arrested nationwide for the violence of the George Floyd Protests, 300 for federal crimes. None of them were pardoned or allowed off. Liberals said things like "they were mostly peaceful" which is true. But not one elected liberal excused the violence and no one was pardoned.
"people" may have lumped them together but they are not equivalent and as of now Trump is clearly siding with violence.
The inference of the pardons is that vigilantes, rapists, racists, murderers can expect a pardon from DJT in the future if it ties in with his agenda. Anyone he hates is now at risk.
I don’t understand how the members of congress can look at each other, or their constituents. They were the ones running and hiding in closets, calling their families for a last goodbye. They were the ones stepping in the feces and cleaning it from their desks. They were the ones the capital police protected so fearlessly, suffering injury and death. Now they are supporting the felon who fomented the insurrection. And voters are terrified of immigrants? I will never disbelieve what my own eyes witnessed.
Congress doesn't have to consider constituents that much anymore. It is the donors that matter more and more. The relationship between constituents and large donors is nonlinear and it's getting progressively worse, faster than the human brain can figure.
There is a scene in 1984 where it is announced that due to great effort by Big Brother chocolate rations will go up to 20 grams. Winston Smith wonders: "Doesn't anyone remember that only last week it was 30?"
In 2020, Trump got 5000 Taliban terrorists released and Biden got blamed for the fallout. Now he has released 1600 violent MAGA terrorists onto the streets of the US including the worst cop killers and seditious conspirators. They will offend again, some violently. How will he get Biden to take the blame?
Absolutely, Paul. I avoided watching anything yesterday, but to learn this morning that he has desecrated the rule of law is heartbreaking. We all know the thugs were guilty. The video evidence alone was enough to convict. And the work of the Select Committee to investigate January 6th gives all the proof in writing. Horrified hardly describes my reaction.
This is no worse than when all white juries refused to convict the murderers of blacks. It's bad. It's very bad. But it can be beaten, and Martin Luther King, Jr has shown us how. With nonviolent protest and resistance.
It will start with the Neo-Brown Shirts (aka Proud boys, J6 patriots of all stripes) beating up peaceful protestors. With no consequences. Then when protests get louder, the military will get jnvolved to “keep the peace”.
Authoritarians and fascists first begin to bend, then break the law where the law doesn't exist. Migrants around the border areas are now at a grave risk. The declaration of the drug cartels as terrorists will also have a similar effect. Any killing around the border of immigrants will be outside the law. The Nazi's killed more civilians outside of Germany than inside it. "Be reflective if you must be armed." Once forces are conditioned to kill around the border, those will be the ones sent to quell domestic protests. Thanks John Roberts. Thanks Mitch.
I can’t forget that King was brutally assassinated and that voting rights, CRT, DEI etc. have been rolled back, that the arc he referred to does not seem to bend toward justice. That the disparity between the rich and poor seems wider than ever. Can it be beaten with nonviolent protest and resistance? We just lost our country to fascism. I am not feeling very hopeful.
The only thing that is more disgusting is that Trump/Vance was endorsed by the FOP (The Fraternal Order of Police). Over 140 of their own were violently beaten for hours on January 6, 2021. One Capitol police officer died that day and four took their own lives as a result of post traumatic stress disorder. My grandfather and my father each wore the badge for 33 years and were veterans of WWI and WWII. I have little respect for the FOP and their leadership for such little respect for their own members and those who wear the badge. Trump now has a militia group of fascists waiting for his orders. "Stand by and stand down".
We CANNOT EVER allow him to use the US Military like this. That would truly signal the end of our country. The local yokels are just frills on the country’s panties.
@Matty, He declared emergencies all along the southern border yesterday so ‘you have just allowed the use of military like this’. You they’ll take the time to determine who is.a US citizen in an emergency? Haha. No chance. Come Feb 1st he’ll do the same with the northern border. And then we here in Canada are pooched. My mama always said, you get the govt you deserve. NONE of us deserved this. We are all in this together now. Thanks for nothing.
Sorry, I was not referring to the use of the US military at our borders. That is at least an arguable claim, even though it is preposterous. My comment was really about any possible use id the military internally. That will be a blow too far for America.
Let’s see how the DOD responds to his first request to interfere with internal justice, OK? We may be pleasantly surprised by their reply. He hasn’t quite hijacked our entire country.. yet.
That is how. Purge the non-loyalists from the DOD and other law enforcement agencies. Send in the Proud Boys and 3%'ers, the Oath Keepers, and other militia. Send in Eric Prince's forces too. Deputize them all, a type of privatizing law enforcement. Militia's already know they will be pardoned, so there is minimal legal jeopardy to them. Local and state cops can easily be overwhelmed ( J6th proved this). Many in Law Enforcement are supporters anyway and will first look the other way, especially around immigrants and drug cartel forces, but in time that transfers to all political enemies and anyone who disagrees or speaks up.
Yes it can. And I may also win the lottery. I’m not being snide, I’m just being hopeful and having some faith in humanity. I’ll be as concerned as you are, if/when the DOD decides to play along with his game.
He’s going to purge the pentagon. Or at least attempt to. That will be your que. Perhaps hegseth gets denied. That would be a plus, but not necessarily.
They took down Gen Milleys photograph in the halls of the Pentagon yesterday. Orders to send military to the southern border. An alcoholic rapist Christian Nationalist is up for Sec of Defense. Do we need another warning signal?
I believe that pardoning the thugs and degenerates who attacked the Capital was a colossal mistake for Trump to make right out of the gate. We will never forget. I'm sure his political minions will be twisting in the wind trying to defend this despicable act. I will never forgive the people who voted for him or the ones who stayed home and didn't vote at all. Sickening.
Many of those people are angry with Trump for what they have been through. . They won't necessarily feel different just because he pardoned them. Like you said. Mistake in more ways than one.
You’re not a serious person. You simply don’t believe in the rule of law if “your people” are held accountable for breaking it. If you’re an American citizen, you’ve failed at holding up your end of the bargain.
I do not think jailing people that way is appropriate for the crime that was committed. They trespassed on public property as part of a political protest.
Saying someone shouldn't be jailed for life for eg shoplifting would be similar if it weren't for the fact that it was done in response to a protest which makes this situation even worse.
Tell that to the families of the dead cops trying to defend the capitol. What exactly makes breaking and entering along with violence above the law? Because it happened at a government building? So those are now law free zones if you disagree politically? Your “logic” is astounding.
“All these people did was walk around”. This should be in the dictionary as the definition of gaslighting. It’s almost like you think none of us remember watching the live televised atrocities on TV. Oh, and what happened to “Back the Blue”? Only one cop died, no biggie. Did he die from watching all the people walk around? Your demonstrable lies and stupidity are breathtaking.
Do you understand them well enough for an eternal refusal of forgiveness? Or is it perhaps sufficiently possible that there’s something about them that you don’t understand that you may one day regret that statement?
Professor Krugman: i realize that Biden took steps to limit or prevent the destruction that the orange jesus seeks to institute, but as a 34-times convicted felon, i don't think any of Biden's measures -- not even his pardons of his family members -- will be honoured because trump is a lawless pestilence who has been taught time and again that he is beholden to NO LAWs, to NO ONE. the only thing the orange jesus worships is MONEY, and the hands that feed it to him.
Presidential pardons can only be challenged in congress and the courts, and congress can’t overturn them. The executive branch has no power to do so at all. What you’re talking about would require a re-write of the constitution, or a burning of it. There are still significant separations of powers in the states, and impeachment is still a real thing.
We had this in Poland 2015-2023. The executive will claim "we will not comply with the obviously unlawful ruling of the court", to the applause of the media and bused-in mass demonstrations of supporters.
The above play will be attempted not always, so you will think (maybe correctly) that rule of law is frayed, but still holds. Even in cases when such a play WILL be attempted, it will not always succeed. But sometimes it will succeed.
All in all, the legal setup becomes the "Pirates of the Caribbean" thing - "the Pirate's Law is merely a suggestion".
The issue is you had this in Poland for a very short time span. Deeply embedded tradition melded with law is much harder to break. I am not saying it is impossible for Trump to bend the law the way you say, but the longstanding tradition does make it harder.
Nevertheless, people should pay attention to what you say. Because it isn't in fact impossible here.
In the US that would be grounds for impeachment, as the president has a duty to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution, and flouting a Supreme Court decision would be in direct contravention of that duty. Not that he’d necessarily be impeached by a Republican house but their majority is slim and he wouldn’t want to risk a trial. I think the checks and balances will hold.
Sean you are making a point but you should consider: he issued an executive order that negated birthright citizenship which is in the constitution, he issued an executive order announcing a national emergency at the border when there clearly is no emergency though it will allow him to call up the military and the national guard. This note could go on and on. It isn’t just that he isn’t a democratic president. Rather he is anti-democratic.
18 states have filed suit to block his attempt to end birthright citizenship. He’s a showman and a conman and this is how he gets something out on the table. And there’s legitimate justification in a lot of people’s minds for declaring an emergency at the border. It’s been very leaky for a long time now.
If orange wants to make life miserable for whoever he can have his newly released hord of worshipper terrorists harass them. He is immune for his executive privilege and he will promise immunity to all who break the law for him.
Please don’t dehumanise him. And there’s a big difference between pardoning people for a politically sensitive incident 4 years ago and promising them ‘immunity’ for carrying out his dastardly deeds. Y’all are getting very irrational on this.
He also declared war on trans people and threw protections for LGBTQ people out the window -- but we knew he was going to do that. Doesn't make it any easier for us who are, even so.
With respect to the Brown Shirts -- and make no mistake, that's what they are -- I take some consolation the overwhelming majority of them have absolutely no idea what happened to the original ones. They called it the Night of the Long Knives for a reason.
In general, only a few of any dictator's original cronies survive very long after power is assumed. They think they're entitled to a share of the pie they just helped steal, but the dictator just makes examples of them as a defensive move.
Re energy and all else false coming out of the Head Mouth- it will be taken as truth by enough of our people perhaps until it hits home with them some way.
Ruth Ben Ghiat historian on fascism and authoritarianism on her Jen Rubin- "Contrarian" substack interview made the point that the Sec'ty of Defense (Hegseth probably) is the perfect person to command militias to do some dirty work internally that the army national guard can't or won't do.
“For now, however, it all seems insignificant beside the reality that the president of the United States has thrown himself fully behind political violence.”
Yes, and he and all his bros are high on their own supply right now. This will ultimately be their downfall.
He’s thrown himself fully behind political violence, but this has always been true for Trump, the man. The very real (and very scary) facts is that now, on the day of his inauguration as President, that man has thrown the United States Government fully behind political violence.
To me, this is the first signal that we are in serious trouble.
How do you see his downfall approaching? I would like to believe you. But I don’t see how. He has been over reaching for a long time and getting away with everything.
I am much MORE bothered than you OBVIOUSLY will EVER understand. And I’ve done more in my very long life to help foster democracy than you likely ever will. Mean people suck. Don’t be one!
That Trump’s downfall is near is delusional, I fear. We can wish it… but that does not make it so. Our faith in guardrails now lies with Congress… and that’s a long shot.
I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that American Democracy may have just died. The executive orders are beyond unethical and destructive. I was prepared, mentally, for bad but this is terrifying, nightmarish.
I didn’t watch or listen to any of it, but seeing that picture this morning of all the tech Brose lined up with each other egging on their leader is beyond disgusting. How did we let America come to this?
I advice people to safeguard their sanity and minimize mainstream news and platforms of tech bros. Because in next few years, media will be busy reacting to daily tweets and absurdities of Trump. Media will sane wash him, truth wash him and in general create an environment of pessimism and confusion. Social media will become a sewer and we must stay out of it.
I only go through a glance of important news and stick to sensible informative platforms (like this Blog). I have also made a list of books i plan to read this year to educate myself better. I am currently reading Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy by Schumpeter. Next on my reading list is Theory of the Leisure Class by T. Veblen.
Thank you. I have not watched the news for 8 years. I scan headlines, walk,meditate, read, groom my dog, refresh my sourdough starter, etc. My sanity comes first.
Regardless of your political affiliation you should avoid mainstream news and especially avoid cybernetic social media as much as possible. These things are funded by advertisement which is just targeted mass manipulation for hire.
Exposing yourself to that is unhealthy and harms not just you but everyone around you.
Donald shows you what kind of a person he is by his treatment of Joe Biden. Since the election, Biden has treated Donald respectfully. But Donald has returned the favor with boorishness and rudeness. The speech yesterday was a case in point. Donald trashed the work of the Biden administration with Joe Biden and Kamala Harris sitting there. Donald sounded as if he was speaking at one of his rallies. There was no need to do that. Donald lacks common decency and humanity. Of course, we all have known that for ten or fifteen years.
That alone is a good reason to not vote for him. I don't understand why any decent person would vote for him.
Possibly because the alternative was something they considered worse. Kamala Harris was a corrupt and cruel puppet candidate of the worst order for neo-cons and worse. At least Trump is an evil they can see and understand (or think they can). Not nearly enough criticism is levelled at the democrats for encouraging weak candidates, discouraging real competition within its party, and trying to sell us all a dud candidate when it thought it could (first Biden, then Harris). Worth considering that perhaps some blame ought to go their way.
Nope, sorry, not buying it. Harris's "faults" were gender, skin color, and Israel, none of which she could do anything about. Everything else is just weak rationalization of naked desire for power to control others.
Kamala's only mistake was not being endorsed by Fox News. The sensational, emotional slant provided by right wing outlets will always appeal more than critical thinking and facts to the strapped, stressed undereducated tribes of working people. Biden and Harris both understand this, but he is better at that emotional connection. And Faux News really played up his declining mental status. If only she had had more time...
What do the Democrats do going forward? The republicans have locked up the white male working class, white conservative Christians, and all of the people who are motivated by racial/cultural/religious antagonism.
That leaves out all of the liberals of different races, many women and most of the people who are not white, people who believe in facts and reality and education. But apparently this group will continue to lose to the first group on election day. That happened in 2016 and 2024.
Of course, some Democrats have the tendency to think of reasons to not vote. Remember in 2016 some women said that they saw no difference between Ms. Clinton and Donald. Some said that she did not exhibit sufficient empathy.
Does Donald exhibit empathy? Three differences between Ms. Clinton and Donald are Kavanagh, Gorsuch, and Barret. These people would not be on the Supreme Court if Ms. Clinton had won and Roe would probably still be the law of the land.
But I am concerned about how the Democrats overcome the republicans skillful use of the culture wars and their help from right-wing media such as FOX which runs propaganda for the republican/religious right wing 24/7.
I agree that Ms. Harris did about as well as she could considering the circumstances.
I love the Democrats, but they have trouble pulling it together on election day.
But in politics if you don't win on election day, you don't win at all.
This is ridiculous. But ridiculous with a grain of truth.
Democrats joined with Republicans in hollowing out the working class, and then were dismissive at best and condescending at worst when the working class sounded the alarm. They now believe, correctly, that Trumpism is a departure from the Democrat/Republican policy consensus. And he is the only one directly speaking at all to the legitimate fears of the working class.
Harris was no more 'weak' than any other candidate that would have been put forward by the Democrats under a more competitive process. Just like anyone else they would have put forward if Biden hadn't run, she was saying all the wrong things in the campaign. She was absolutely typical of what Democrats think win elections. They are wrong. Wrong because Democrats don't even understand what is wrong.
But, Trump is the wrong answer to the right question. Trump understands far better than Democrats what is wrong, but he is nevertheless the wrong person to address it. He will likely just make things worse for the working class.
But it is ridiculous to believe she was a 'puppet candidate'. 60% of the Democratic party simply doesn't understand what's wrong, and she's just representative of that 60%. That's not 'puppet'. That's representation.
Never forget that what trump says he will do includes anything at all that has already happened under Biden- if it helps trump he will claim HE did it !!! The man cannot be trusted for anything but lies, cheating & stealing to enhance HIMSELF ! The public are just too ignorant to see what he is doing. He is the most tiresome & revolting human on the planet !
Thank you for this. Out of everything that happened yesterday, the pardons were a kick in the stomach, even though I knew they were coming. All of those brave prosecutors, all of that evidence, all of those brave judges who did the right thing, and now it's done, just like that. I feel like I'm watching a banana republic, or some other country. This is no longer the United States that I grew up loving and caring about. It makes me sad. And scared.
Quite a few people writing here don't seem to have considered that "the news" doesn't generally follow who gets brought to justice after they do something wrong unless it becomes a high-interest story. I live in the Minneapolis area and there was local follow-up on who participated in the George Floyd riots and who got brought to justice if they'd broken the law. There were actually many outsiders who came here to cause the turmoil that ensued.
OK now my song: "They're Eating Cat and Dogs Says J.D. Vance" The 2nd verse is most important. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiNusL05JUo
We never fully removed the shackles from the colonial period. There we were enslaving people as a way to prosperity. From the planters to the oligarchs it’s the same motive.
Paul, we knew what we were in for. My history isn’t the best but I’m trying to find a worst president in our brief history. I can’t. Andrew Johnson? Andrew Jackson? George W. Bush? No, the pale in comparison. So why this abomination?
When I do something that doesn’t go right, I tend to reflect and ask myself what was it I did wrong. I think this would be healthy to view it. It always takes two to tango. So let me play devil’s advocate for a moment. And I want to state that I’m not a die hard liberal. I’m not partisan although I seek democratic safe ports in storms.
In my opinion, the left has pushed our “woke” agendas as far then farther. Diversity is it really needed? I think not especially when you automatically categorize those of us who are Caucasian. I’m now accused of being privileged. That’s the result of CRT. I’m simply a small single proprietor business person but I’m frequently singled out as privileged. I’m tired of that shit. In this nation, we have made struggling white people the enemy and we don’t even realize it. Think about it before you outright reject it. There is more but that’s enough for now.
Example #1: I was seeking a booth at a democratic sponsored event once. I had to identify myself in categories. 1. Minority owned? 2. Woman owned? 3. Union friendly? 4. LBGTQ owned? Are you fricken kidding me? I’m a small single proprietor business. I didn’t quite fit in. This is what is destroying this nation.so we rebel and elect a mafia second rate demigod so destructive.
Your little personal anecdote doesn’t “prove” that democrats forced “woke” on the country. You’ve become exactly the same as any fox viewer by accepting the republican fascist propaganda framing of democrats based on your feelings.
Democrats and liberals persuaded themselves earlier in this century that changing demographics would bring about a “minority majority” who would bring Democrats back into power—instead what has happened is that many of those “minority” voters have aligned with Republicans. It turns out a lot of Latinos are actually white (descended from Spanish colonials), so that the supposed racial realignment was a mirage. In the meantime, Democrats and liberals have done a p*ss poor job of selling themselves to voters.
Again, we have declared war on white people that is the Democratic Party agenda. But most will never understand this tid bit. But it’s true. That ole pendulum shift and now it has shifted to the far right. We as humans and we are in this sub brut category, we don’t ever know when enough is enough.
And don’t be concerned about me. I have no where else to turn but to the very imperfect Democratic Party agenda. I will never move to the right. But I despise the left side politics. Read my book, “Donald’s Vanity Tantrums.” I know what I’m talking about.
What’s woke?
Are you not differentiating between groups who are working specifically with those named groups, and ones with the general public? And these people have it rough too, and may have different experiences than you. I’ve sometimes thought it would be nice if all groups could attend these meetings, but I don’t begrudge them. Also, I have come to realize that being white, and probably male, does confer some privileges.
I understand the chafing at being looked at as the enemy, but maybe people are identifying a situation, rather than targeting you. And your need to be a part of the conversation.
Both sides have a point.
Trump might still have a way to go to knock James Buchanan (Lincoln's immediate predecessor) off his pedestal as the consensus Worst President of All Time.
You are insane.
Oh, bullshit. That was no litmus test. That was a rather simplistic way of slotting you into a marketing category so they know what buttons to push when they want you to give them money. Don’t attribute to malice what actually is unimaginative fund raising techniques.
Why are you yapping about about V's moronic snark? For what purpose?
Don’t tell me what to do or say. And what is V
Dont feed the (AI?) bot/troll. I reported him/it lol
Obviously V is Vance. Again why bring up old stupid snark from a GOP fascist? Where have you been ? Mars?
You didn’t listen to my 2nd verse, Ahole.
Change your diaper. Your sneering and mocking is too easy. Try thinking.
I think people have lumped in Jan 6 with the other rioting and mob violence that took place in 2020. I still think about how liberals downplayed the more violent aspects of the George Floyd protests (I know I did), the hypocrisy over Covid, and the sudden rise in crime/homicide hurt Democrats’ credibility when it comes to criticizing Jan 6.
Sigh.
You are no liberal. Why the lie?
Why do people consider the violence associated with the murder of George Floyd to be analogous to the January 6th assault on the Capitol? The one was domestic violence, the other an attempt to overthrow the government. Apples and oranges, folks. They are not analogous.
More like apples, and squash.
A Brit here, I would support what Dan is saying about why Trump pardonning the majority of the Capitol protestors won't generate much outrage for long. I'm definitely on the left, I cheered the dumping of the slave owner's statue in Bristol dock - but I saw lots of violent riots, attacks on police and property damage at the BLM protests in the USA (on the BBC news not Fox) and very little punishment seemed to follow from those riots. Was that because the riots were in a "good" cause? It must have been terrifying for the shopkeepers, police and firefighters under attack, nevertheless. Because the January 6th events didn't achieve the worst they could have, (which was definitely the aim of some there) and people have short memories, I think most of the public will say "water under the bridge" and move on to the next crisis. That's not to say you're not in very deep trouble with the Fantasist-in-Chief and the billionaires circling for spoils. We are horrified over here.
BLM protests involved millions of people in hundreds of cities. 99% of them peaceful. Still, 1% of several million people is a few thousand people.
Lots of people have been punished for BLM-related activity. Many have been arrested and prosecuted (and I assume convicted), but it wasn’t one event, at one place, on one day, with one police force and one prosecutor’s office, it’s not an easy way to track, or to find a single list of defendants and results. But do a little Googling and you will find plenty.
But there were still key differences:
- Demonstrators were demanding government DO something, i.e. get police to stop killing Black people.
- They weren’t trying to overturn an election.
- Neither the President of the United States or any other official with pardon power, to my knowledge, called people who committed vandalism “heroes,” “patriots,” etc., argued that they were being persecuted, and such.
It’s a very lame and bad-faith “whatabout” to compare the two. In this the President (at the time) incited his supporters to go to the Capitol in order to overturn an election he lost. 160 police officers were injured, six died at least indirectly. Trump subsequently 1) Denied he had any responsibility; 2) claimed it was antifa; 3) said these people were being treated very unfairly; and now 4) pardoned them. Which would belie several of his arguments. What he did was free his thugs, and send the message that if you commit crimes on behalf of Trump, he will have your back. Serious moral hazard.
Yesterday was perhaps the worst, most shameful day in American history, which is saying something. January 6 was awful, but yesterday we put its architect back in power and he freed the criminals. Added to that, so many people who should know better are basically yawning at all this, or at least hoping for tax cuts and deregulation. I am so ashamed.
Thank you for this cogent post.
Thank you for this excellent response.
Yes. The excuses of "but he will just cut red tape" have long since rung hollow, and venal. They translate to "I've got mine, I don't care about you."
More than "like". It was an important reminder of what an insurrection is. I still do not understand why the Capitol Police did not use their guns.
One did, and Ashley Babbit is treated as a martyr.
I’d say November 5 qualifies as most shameful, since what happened with the pardons was an entirely foreseeable consequence of what happened on November 5.
I'm a native Texan and retired police officer now living in Beaverton, a suburb of Portland. The demonstrations resulting from the murder of George Floyd here in Portland were like all mass demonstrations. They're unpredictable.
People within the demonstrations are still individuals with their own attitudes and desires beyond the immediate cause. Some almost certainly didn't care anything about George Floyd but enjoyed the energy and the ability to act out in various ways including committing crimes. While media coverage created the impression that downtown Portland was all but destroyed, the reality is that the physical damage was limited in scope.
As others have noted, the demonstrations were a response of outrage to a murder at the hands of people who had taken oaths to obey the dictates of the constitutions of the state of Minnesota and United States. The insurrectionists of January 6, 2021 were attempting to overthrow the Constitution in service of Donald Trump's anti-American ego and ambition.
I live in Lents, in Portland and , though I never went to an evening protest, I would say your description sounds spot on. Nuanced and thoughtful. Excellently said.
In my city the looters came out after the protesters went home and shops were closed. There was no violence against the police but plenty of violence against the protesters especially in Portland Oregon.
King George III didn’t send sufficient troops to put down our rebellion, unfortunately.
I still think the USA will come good, again, this too shall pass.....
Maybe. I only wish it would pass in my lifetime. I still haven't even recovered from Reagan.
Thanks. All good karma is greatly appreciated!
your loss 😘
It's entirely possible that some of those George Floyd rioters were right-wing agitators. In fact, I'd say it was probable. January 6th was all about right-wing violence. They were trying to overthrow the government and kill people.
I did wonder about that, as that sounds like a modus operandi. Didn’t see any actual evidence, but would believe it.
I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist but I am pretty sure this kind of thing has been going on for a long time. Certainly it happened in the sixties. It fits with their approach.
Hsvr you considered that thr BBC may hav chosen to focus on the most violent protests?
You. Lewis, are partly responsible for the nazi empowerment of Trump. You may be proud in this moment, but the damage coming from this is on your head.
I am. I also acknowledge that liberals and Democrats have damaged credibility with the much of the public (hence why Trump won in spite of all of his crimes, incompetence, and corruption.)
I just think the public perception of Jan 6 got lumped in with the chaos of 2020 and when people rightfully point out how bad the insurrection actually was.
I am sorry that you assume this is lying when I try to explain why Jan 6 didn’t prevent Trump’s reelection and why pardoning Jan 6ers won’t generate huge public backlash.
I guess I should go back to SlowBoring.
Please convince me of one thing that the Dems have done that will match the 'damaged credibility' and wrecking ball that the GOP, TFG and his maga supporting troupe of billionaires have done and will do to this country.
In order to do that, we have to go back to 1860.
If you watch FOX you would think that the 2020 George Floyd protests were comparable to Jan 6. However, if you look outside of the FOX box, you would know that most of the protests were peaceful.
Most liberals that I know seek information from reliable sources. Most of the 2020 protests were peaceful.
But, yeah, Yglesias is definitely a site for you.
Matt Yglesias Is Confidently Wrong About Everything
https://www.currentaffairs.org/news/the-opinions-of-matt-yglesias-should-be-ignored
BLM and Floyd protests were largely peaceful, data confirms
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2021/0708/BLM-and-Floyd-protests-were-largely-peaceful-data-confirms
Yglesias shouldn't be lionized as a genius OR dismissed out of hand. He's a really smart guy who thinks himself into stupid positions sometimes. (In fact, I think he would agree 100% with that assessment.)
His writing should be taken a la carte. It's almost impossible for him to be wrong about "everything" because in some sense he often disagrees with himself.
Yglesias might be a bit too enthralled with his own alleged brilliance.
If you're being sincere it's a perfect example of why they win. All we can do is talk about our own "failures" while they stay laser focused on attacking us.
And we need to be unfair to ourselves, to make it fair, because otherwise we would be holding Republicans to too high of a standard.
Yes, go back to SlowBoring. I'll see you there.
You're right of course. But the Republicans >own< the low road. For some inexplicable reason, voters reward Republicans for bad behavior, and punish Democrats for it. It's nonsensical but true. If you mud wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, but the pig likes it, so you can't win.
Explain why you pretend to be a liberal.
I vote for Democrats. I support expanding social safety net programs and increasing taxes to properly fund government purchases and services. Pretty normal stuff.
Why do you choose not to read what was actually written and just to repeating the same unsubstantiated character attacks?
You fall for the Trump propaganda and use that as the basis for your "reasoned" opinion. Do you have any critical thinking skills, whatsoever?
Dan Quail and Dan Quayle are different people. "Dan Quayle is an American retired politician who served as the 44th vice president of the United States from 1989 to 1993 under President George HW Bush." Just to be clear.
Also you should avoid assuming the worst of people. Especially when conflating a descriptive statement with a normative endorsement.
If people say terrible things people are going to assume they mean them. You think protesting racist police violence = overthrowing democracy. If you don't think that then get better at expressing yourself.
No they are not the same, and it is worth mentioning that people riot even for non-political reasons. When a football team wins or loses, sometimes there are riots, and some of those hooliganism results in no jail time. It doesn’t mean that any other rioters should escape prosecution or those who escaped prosecution are somehow bearing witness to double standards or to the rightness of some political cause. Just that local police sometimes let people go for whatever reason.
What is more important are the issues themselves. Did the Jan 6 rioters know what they were doing, namely their candidate lost an election, and rather than dealing with it peacefully and legally, they decided to use force to try to change the outcome? Or did they think they were overturning a perceived unfair election — egged on by Trump? In the BLM case, did the rioters commit unlawful acts? What were their motivations?
It is absolutely correct to call out that these are unrelated and incomparable. Just because there was a riot after Tottenham lost to Arsenal and most rioters were given a slap on the wrist doesn’t mean that it’s ok to loot someone’s store. Just because there were violence at BLM protests doesn’t mean it is right to use force to overturn an election. Just because the sitting president can legally pardon almost anyone and commute sentences doesn’t mean he should. It is imperative that we don’t justify actions on the basis of fairness and even legality alone. There should and must be other considerations.
Also, I am more than willing to give BLM movement a pass because 1) police actions in many of the instances were escalatory, greatly increasing the likelihood of confrontation and 2) not more than 50 years ago, many people of color (and their allies in the white community) were the target of disproportionate amounts of violence. The history of unilateral racial violence shape our perception and narratives about aggression and retaliation from African Americans: we are more likely to heighten our sense of threat when confronted by stories of civil disobedience, protests and civil unrest, which in turn shape our perceptions of the illegitimacy of the political causes that incited them.
Why do we view labor movements as benign, or sports riots as just a bit of fun gone wrong when we are more likely to see BLM movements as threatening the safety of neighborhoods and the businesses therein? What about white supremacy rallies or pro-life protests? Do we know what goes on in those rallies or do we assume that they are more “peaceful”, less threatening, and more appropriate for a modern economic development? I feel obligated to call out these cognitive biases so we can right-size our conversations about racial justice movements.
Hypocrisy over COVID what exactly? Rise in crime what exactly? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/u-s-sees-sharp-decline-in-murders-and-others-crimes-in-2024
Also, mixing up street violence with an attack to the Capitol shows how confused you're, man
And there was a jump in violence in the preceding years, but that apparently didn’t happen because crime started declining afterwards?
And I am confused for suggesting that for some people the perception of Jan 6 could have been lumped in with the broader surge in violence of the same period.
(Also I did not “mix up” street violence with the attack on the Capitol. Just describing why the public might not have treated it with the gravity they should have.)
The hypocrisy over COVID may refer to public health officials saying mass gatherings to protest the killing of George Floyd should not be discouraged as a public health measure, because it was a good cause. It was not the place of public health officials to say what is a good cause—they could have instead advised that protests (whatever the subject matter) were not a public health hazard if they were limited to outdoors, during daylight hours, and made some effort at social distancing. It was known by then that sunlight effectively killed the virus (unfortunately the briefing where that was announced became better known for Trump’s suggestion that people drink disinfectant). But saying that COVID restrictions could be relaxed for BLM protests was what persuaded a lot of people that public health officials were biased, and that the pandemic was not as serious as they claimed.
Bot/Troll alert
Neither, but thanks. It’s been made abundantly clear this is not a place for nuance.
“It’s been made abundantly clear this is not a place for nuance.”
The United States, in 2025? I emphatically agree.
You must be a professor.
I was.
I am just trying to understand why Jan 6 didn’t disqualify Trump for much of the public. (And I am still livid about Garland slow rolling the Jan 6 court case against Trump. FFS you had four years.)
Joe Biden was a very imperfect leader. And I suspect he never quite understood the danger of Trump and his minions. And too, McConnell was to interested keeping a strong Republican agenda not able to realize that Trump is not republican or democratic. He is nothing he has only the agenda of money. McConnell could have voted for impeachment and that would have ended Trump. What is it that prevents a person from understanding danger? Age? Agenda? Political orientation?
Power and money.
Because McConnell has the spine of a jellyfish. Except when it comes to sitting on Democratic judicial appointments.
For the average voter I guess distance from the event (time and geographic) and the ability to equivocate
While you're trying to help us understand why Jan 6 didn't disqualify Trump for much of the public, perhaps you can also help us understand why:
A million dead from a mishandled COVID-19 response
34 felony convictions
Credible charges of stealing classified materials
Being an adjudicated sexual offender
...didn't also disqualify him for much of the public.
Remember - Howard Dean was once run out of the primaries because he said "Yeah!" into a microphone...
Republicans mastered propaganda long ago, staring with Nixon's "southern" dog whistle strategy. Or even further back to McCarthy's "Un-American activities" committee. The Democrats haven't caught up.
Because they’re fucking fascists. Wake up.
I am trying to understand this, too. Apparently democracy doesn’t mean much to a lot of people if they think they can save a quarter a gallon.
I’m a little frustrated with Garland, but I think a lot of people are overlooking the likelihood that 1) Aileen Cannon would have slow-walked the classified docs case no matter when she got it and 2) SCOTUS would have dragged its feet and conferred immunity even if they’d gotten the case a year or more earlier.
Ultimately, the fault is with the American people (the 49.6% of them, anyway), who knew all this about Trump and just didn’t care. It breaks my heart.
Every comment before this one did NOT resonate with me. This comment fits my feeling exactly. You are what some would call a complex asshole! You do seem to enjoy shaking upfolks.
I am an economist, people tend not to like us because we prod.
I am more concerned why something is going on rather than announcing that I think Trump is terrible (I actually think he is the Antichrist, but that is a rabbit hole on interpreting Revelations and how Greek culture influences the Bible.)
Please give more hard evidence of this political violence perpetrated by liberals.
That is not the claim made or implied, so I am confused by your claim.
Own your words. You’re the one who compared liberal blindness to destruction of property in the George Floyd protests to outrage over the occupation and desecration of the building that houses the beating heart of our democracy.
Those who lump those events together either cannot or refuse to use their brains to make valid comparisons. How are civil rights protests that sometimes turned violent the same as a violent insurrection orchestrated by the sitting President to try to remain in power?
What I am describing is how many people plausible have equivocated the two things and thus downplayed Jan 6. I am not equivocating the two things, because they are vastly different in terms of public consequence.
I am upset people voted for Trump. I am upset many voters didn’t treat Jan 6 as disqualifying.
I was living in Europe when the 2020 protests took place. Got most of my information from my sister in Portland, NPR, the Guardian, and how Europeans were interpreting events in their media. I can tell you the Scandinavians were less positive about the events than Anglos.
People generally understand that some properties are more valuable than others. The Capitol is the beating heart of our democracy—how do you value that? It was forcibly taken from its rightful owners and desecrated with feces. How did that change its value? How does it compare to property damaged or destroyed in the George Floyd protests? Was that property sacred to our democracy? Did insurance not rebuild their value? How do you rebuild the value of the beating heart of democracy?
You’re not a serious person if you can’t think more deeply than comparing things that don’t compare.
Nitwit. Don’t waste your babbling here Dan. Find a corner stool at the nearest tavern and mumble your nonsense nonstop to disinterested imbibers.
Completely disagree.
What crime!! We're at a 50-year low! (Because, in part, unemployment is also at a 50-year low) Are the stats by all the local police lies all over the country of different political stripes lies???
Dude you're dead wrong here and are repeating a Russian disinfo talking point.
What hypocrisy over COVID-19?
Telling everyone to shelter at home an isolate but the also saying it was fine to gather in large groups in public to protest.
Then telling people that we were somehow protecting the public by keeping schools closed and reopening bars (much worse Covid vectors), some places kept schools closed long after the vaccines were rolled out. Emily Oster has been lambasted for pointing out learning loss is real.
Those things did negatively impact public trust in public health and school policy, things Democrats historically win on and have had credibility in.
Republicans ran things too. Drink some more Kool Aid.
All you are communicating is that you ask dishonest questions, ignore the substance of what is written, and then just throw unwarranted insults at people.
Certainly looting a shoe store or protesting in the streets is comparable to attacking our nation’s capital and attempting an insurrection.
Describing why people might equivocate is not an endorsement of equivocation.
I know your comment wasn't particularly popular with this commenter base, Dan, but I think you're exactly right. Regardless of the facts of the George Floyd protests vs. Jan 6, the perception amongst the center and center-right is that they are two sides of the same coin. This has probably been helped along by Fox News and right wing media in general.
- your fellow SlowBorer!
It is a form of semantic infiltration to suggest the protests and the violence in 2020 were the same events.
There was urban, racially charged violence, which was not controlled due to inadequate resources and unwillingness to utilize violence to combat it. There was also a planned violent attack on our federal government to circumvent our democratic way of life. There is no equivalency between the two.
10,000 people were arrested nationwide for the violence of the George Floyd Protests, 300 for federal crimes. None of them were pardoned or allowed off. Liberals said things like "they were mostly peaceful" which is true. But not one elected liberal excused the violence and no one was pardoned.
"people" may have lumped them together but they are not equivalent and as of now Trump is clearly siding with violence.
https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8
The inference of the pardons is that vigilantes, rapists, racists, murderers can expect a pardon from DJT in the future if it ties in with his agenda. Anyone he hates is now at risk.
Trump was horrible starting in 2015, so why now do you give up?
‘It ain’t over ‘til it’s over’.
I don’t understand how the members of congress can look at each other, or their constituents. They were the ones running and hiding in closets, calling their families for a last goodbye. They were the ones stepping in the feces and cleaning it from their desks. They were the ones the capital police protected so fearlessly, suffering injury and death. Now they are supporting the felon who fomented the insurrection. And voters are terrified of immigrants? I will never disbelieve what my own eyes witnessed.
Congress doesn't have to consider constituents that much anymore. It is the donors that matter more and more. The relationship between constituents and large donors is nonlinear and it's getting progressively worse, faster than the human brain can figure.
We lose – this is the real world.
There is a scene in 1984 where it is announced that due to great effort by Big Brother chocolate rations will go up to 20 grams. Winston Smith wonders: "Doesn't anyone remember that only last week it was 30?"
What a perfect description of the MAGA cult mindset.
What is the mindset" You don't say or explain.
That an "increase" is actually a decrease. Believing propaganda. Reread Arthur's post and you will understand.
Lewis isn’t worth communicating with.
Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected as much.
Bot/MAGA alert.
Doesn't this come under the column called '"gaslighting"?
Yes. Manipulation 101.
In 2020, Trump got 5000 Taliban terrorists released and Biden got blamed for the fallout. Now he has released 1600 violent MAGA terrorists onto the streets of the US including the worst cop killers and seditious conspirators. They will offend again, some violently. How will he get Biden to take the blame?
He won't blame them. He'll laud them as patriots acting in defense of the reich.
cut the rhetoric; this is shallow.
Do you know what rhetoric even means? He has literally called these people patriots. 🧌
Bot/MAGA alert.
Parrot alert!
Absolutely, Paul. I avoided watching anything yesterday, but to learn this morning that he has desecrated the rule of law is heartbreaking. We all know the thugs were guilty. The video evidence alone was enough to convict. And the work of the Select Committee to investigate January 6th gives all the proof in writing. Horrified hardly describes my reaction.
This is no worse than when all white juries refused to convict the murderers of blacks. It's bad. It's very bad. But it can be beaten, and Martin Luther King, Jr has shown us how. With nonviolent protest and resistance.
And Trump will send our military to shoot nonviolent protesters. Just wait.
And Americans will cheer him.
It will start with the Neo-Brown Shirts (aka Proud boys, J6 patriots of all stripes) beating up peaceful protestors. With no consequences. Then when protests get louder, the military will get jnvolved to “keep the peace”.
Authoritarians and fascists first begin to bend, then break the law where the law doesn't exist. Migrants around the border areas are now at a grave risk. The declaration of the drug cartels as terrorists will also have a similar effect. Any killing around the border of immigrants will be outside the law. The Nazi's killed more civilians outside of Germany than inside it. "Be reflective if you must be armed." Once forces are conditioned to kill around the border, those will be the ones sent to quell domestic protests. Thanks John Roberts. Thanks Mitch.
Arm up.
When the rule of law is dead, gunpowder is king.
I do think it’s a good idea. I’ve never owned a gun, but it’s probably time.
I can’t forget that King was brutally assassinated and that voting rights, CRT, DEI etc. have been rolled back, that the arc he referred to does not seem to bend toward justice. That the disparity between the rich and poor seems wider than ever. Can it be beaten with nonviolent protest and resistance? We just lost our country to fascism. I am not feeling very hopeful.
The only thing that is more disgusting is that Trump/Vance was endorsed by the FOP (The Fraternal Order of Police). Over 140 of their own were violently beaten for hours on January 6, 2021. One Capitol police officer died that day and four took their own lives as a result of post traumatic stress disorder. My grandfather and my father each wore the badge for 33 years and were veterans of WWI and WWII. I have little respect for the FOP and their leadership for such little respect for their own members and those who wear the badge. Trump now has a militia group of fascists waiting for his orders. "Stand by and stand down".
We CANNOT EVER allow him to use the US Military like this. That would truly signal the end of our country. The local yokels are just frills on the country’s panties.
@Matty, He declared emergencies all along the southern border yesterday so ‘you have just allowed the use of military like this’. You they’ll take the time to determine who is.a US citizen in an emergency? Haha. No chance. Come Feb 1st he’ll do the same with the northern border. And then we here in Canada are pooched. My mama always said, you get the govt you deserve. NONE of us deserved this. We are all in this together now. Thanks for nothing.
Sorry, I was not referring to the use of the US military at our borders. That is at least an arguable claim, even though it is preposterous. My comment was really about any possible use id the military internally. That will be a blow too far for America.
What are you going to do about it?
Let’s see how the DOD responds to his first request to interfere with internal justice, OK? We may be pleasantly surprised by their reply. He hasn’t quite hijacked our entire country.. yet.
Every position of authority in his administration is run by an evil, powerful sycophant. Seems to me he has quite hijacked the entire country.
So, hide under blankets and let someone else do the work? No wonder the Trumpers have zero respect for us.
Arm up.
"Purge. Privatizations. Pardons." -Ruth Ben-Ghiat.
That is how. Purge the non-loyalists from the DOD and other law enforcement agencies. Send in the Proud Boys and 3%'ers, the Oath Keepers, and other militia. Send in Eric Prince's forces too. Deputize them all, a type of privatizing law enforcement. Militia's already know they will be pardoned, so there is minimal legal jeopardy to them. Local and state cops can easily be overwhelmed ( J6th proved this). Many in Law Enforcement are supporters anyway and will first look the other way, especially around immigrants and drug cartel forces, but in time that transfers to all political enemies and anyone who disagrees or speaks up.
It Can Happen Here.
Yes it can. And I may also win the lottery. I’m not being snide, I’m just being hopeful and having some faith in humanity. I’ll be as concerned as you are, if/when the DOD decides to play along with his game.
He’s going to purge the pentagon. Or at least attempt to. That will be your que. Perhaps hegseth gets denied. That would be a plus, but not necessarily.
They took down Gen Milleys photograph in the halls of the Pentagon yesterday. Orders to send military to the southern border. An alcoholic rapist Christian Nationalist is up for Sec of Defense. Do we need another warning signal?
All he has to do is declare a national emergency, or martial law. He has, and will.
I believe that pardoning the thugs and degenerates who attacked the Capital was a colossal mistake for Trump to make right out of the gate. We will never forget. I'm sure his political minions will be twisting in the wind trying to defend this despicable act. I will never forgive the people who voted for him or the ones who stayed home and didn't vote at all. Sickening.
Many of those people are angry with Trump for what they have been through. . They won't necessarily feel different just because he pardoned them. Like you said. Mistake in more ways than one.
Those were political prisoners. Jailing them was completely inappropriate.
You’re not a serious person. You simply don’t believe in the rule of law if “your people” are held accountable for breaking it. If you’re an American citizen, you’ve failed at holding up your end of the bargain.
I do not think jailing people that way is appropriate for the crime that was committed. They trespassed on public property as part of a political protest.
Saying someone shouldn't be jailed for life for eg shoplifting would be similar if it weren't for the fact that it was done in response to a protest which makes this situation even worse.
Since you seem so well acquainted with the facts, please tell us all which defendants were charged with just trespassing and received jail time.
You don’t get to make up a new definition of their crimes and pretend that’s the truth. You’ve failed yet again to be a citizen, if you even are one.
Tell that to the families of the dead cops trying to defend the capitol. What exactly makes breaking and entering along with violence above the law? Because it happened at a government building? So those are now law free zones if you disagree politically? Your “logic” is astounding.
People who bombed the capital are working in the government now. All these people did was walk around.
One cop died. IIRC it was from an unrelated illness.
“All these people did was walk around”. This should be in the dictionary as the definition of gaslighting. It’s almost like you think none of us remember watching the live televised atrocities on TV. Oh, and what happened to “Back the Blue”? Only one cop died, no biggie. Did he die from watching all the people walk around? Your demonstrable lies and stupidity are breathtaking.
See you in the streets, cunt.
Is that really how you're going to argue for the Law?
You must be great fun at parties. Obviously you have nothing better to do than troll the comments section of this Substack.
You are full of shit.
fascist alert!
You can call the sides whatever you like but that doesn't change the moral and logical realities.
Surely, you forgot to add a note indicating that “political prisoners “ was sarcastic. Surely.
Do you understand them well enough for an eternal refusal of forgiveness? Or is it perhaps sufficiently possible that there’s something about them that you don’t understand that you may one day regret that statement?
I’m pretty sure I will never forgive those traitors. You do you.
The answers to your questions are easy: yes, and no.
Why don’t you go down on each and every one?
Professor Krugman: i realize that Biden took steps to limit or prevent the destruction that the orange jesus seeks to institute, but as a 34-times convicted felon, i don't think any of Biden's measures -- not even his pardons of his family members -- will be honoured because trump is a lawless pestilence who has been taught time and again that he is beholden to NO LAWs, to NO ONE. the only thing the orange jesus worships is MONEY, and the hands that feed it to him.
Presidential pardons can only be challenged in congress and the courts, and congress can’t overturn them. The executive branch has no power to do so at all. What you’re talking about would require a re-write of the constitution, or a burning of it. There are still significant separations of powers in the states, and impeachment is still a real thing.
We had this in Poland 2015-2023. The executive will claim "we will not comply with the obviously unlawful ruling of the court", to the applause of the media and bused-in mass demonstrations of supporters.
The above play will be attempted not always, so you will think (maybe correctly) that rule of law is frayed, but still holds. Even in cases when such a play WILL be attempted, it will not always succeed. But sometimes it will succeed.
All in all, the legal setup becomes the "Pirates of the Caribbean" thing - "the Pirate's Law is merely a suggestion".
The issue is you had this in Poland for a very short time span. Deeply embedded tradition melded with law is much harder to break. I am not saying it is impossible for Trump to bend the law the way you say, but the longstanding tradition does make it harder.
Nevertheless, people should pay attention to what you say. Because it isn't in fact impossible here.
In the US that would be grounds for impeachment, as the president has a duty to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution, and flouting a Supreme Court decision would be in direct contravention of that duty. Not that he’d necessarily be impeached by a Republican house but their majority is slim and he wouldn’t want to risk a trial. I think the checks and balances will hold.
Sean you are making a point but you should consider: he issued an executive order that negated birthright citizenship which is in the constitution, he issued an executive order announcing a national emergency at the border when there clearly is no emergency though it will allow him to call up the military and the national guard. This note could go on and on. It isn’t just that he isn’t a democratic president. Rather he is anti-democratic.
18 states have filed suit to block his attempt to end birthright citizenship. He’s a showman and a conman and this is how he gets something out on the table. And there’s legitimate justification in a lot of people’s minds for declaring an emergency at the border. It’s been very leaky for a long time now.
If orange wants to make life miserable for whoever he can have his newly released hord of worshipper terrorists harass them. He is immune for his executive privilege and he will promise immunity to all who break the law for him.
Please don’t dehumanise him. And there’s a big difference between pardoning people for a politically sensitive incident 4 years ago and promising them ‘immunity’ for carrying out his dastardly deeds. Y’all are getting very irrational on this.
He also declared war on trans people and threw protections for LGBTQ people out the window -- but we knew he was going to do that. Doesn't make it any easier for us who are, even so.
With respect to the Brown Shirts -- and make no mistake, that's what they are -- I take some consolation the overwhelming majority of them have absolutely no idea what happened to the original ones. They called it the Night of the Long Knives for a reason.
In general, only a few of any dictator's original cronies survive very long after power is assumed. They think they're entitled to a share of the pie they just helped steal, but the dictator just makes examples of them as a defensive move.
Condolences to all of us.
Re energy and all else false coming out of the Head Mouth- it will be taken as truth by enough of our people perhaps until it hits home with them some way.
Ruth Ben Ghiat historian on fascism and authoritarianism on her Jen Rubin- "Contrarian" substack interview made the point that the Sec'ty of Defense (Hegseth probably) is the perfect person to command militias to do some dirty work internally that the army national guard can't or won't do.
Resistance has to be smart.
Please keep telling the truth.
“For now, however, it all seems insignificant beside the reality that the president of the United States has thrown himself fully behind political violence.”
Yes, and he and all his bros are high on their own supply right now. This will ultimately be their downfall.
He’s thrown himself fully behind political violence, but this has always been true for Trump, the man. The very real (and very scary) facts is that now, on the day of his inauguration as President, that man has thrown the United States Government fully behind political violence.
To me, this is the first signal that we are in serious trouble.
If Trumpism gets entrenched, (the trend from 2016 to now indicates this), we will start to look more and more like USSR/Russia.
As much as I hate to think in terms of armed militias on the left, does anyone think that the likes of
Putin can be deposed without violence?
Trump will overreach.
He already has with his pardons. His downfall is approaching quickly.
How do you see his downfall approaching? I would like to believe you. But I don’t see how. He has been over reaching for a long time and getting away with everything.
The pardons are an ugly thumb in the eye to honorable lawmakers. I believe it was even a bridge too far for them. There will be a backlash.
Stop waiting for the cavalry. It’s not coming, and you know it. You just don’t want to be bothered.
I am much MORE bothered than you OBVIOUSLY will EVER understand. And I’ve done more in my very long life to help foster democracy than you likely ever will. Mean people suck. Don’t be one!
That Trump’s downfall is near is delusional, I fear. We can wish it… but that does not make it so. Our faith in guardrails now lies with Congress… and that’s a long shot.
I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say that American Democracy may have just died. The executive orders are beyond unethical and destructive. I was prepared, mentally, for bad but this is terrifying, nightmarish.
I didn’t watch or listen to any of it, but seeing that picture this morning of all the tech Brose lined up with each other egging on their leader is beyond disgusting. How did we let America come to this?
I advice people to safeguard their sanity and minimize mainstream news and platforms of tech bros. Because in next few years, media will be busy reacting to daily tweets and absurdities of Trump. Media will sane wash him, truth wash him and in general create an environment of pessimism and confusion. Social media will become a sewer and we must stay out of it.
I only go through a glance of important news and stick to sensible informative platforms (like this Blog). I have also made a list of books i plan to read this year to educate myself better. I am currently reading Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy by Schumpeter. Next on my reading list is Theory of the Leisure Class by T. Veblen.
Thank you. I have not watched the news for 8 years. I scan headlines, walk,meditate, read, groom my dog, refresh my sourdough starter, etc. My sanity comes first.
And support if possible the truth-tellers!
Regardless of your political affiliation you should avoid mainstream news and especially avoid cybernetic social media as much as possible. These things are funded by advertisement which is just targeted mass manipulation for hire.
Exposing yourself to that is unhealthy and harms not just you but everyone around you.
Donald shows you what kind of a person he is by his treatment of Joe Biden. Since the election, Biden has treated Donald respectfully. But Donald has returned the favor with boorishness and rudeness. The speech yesterday was a case in point. Donald trashed the work of the Biden administration with Joe Biden and Kamala Harris sitting there. Donald sounded as if he was speaking at one of his rallies. There was no need to do that. Donald lacks common decency and humanity. Of course, we all have known that for ten or fifteen years.
That alone is a good reason to not vote for him. I don't understand why any decent person would vote for him.
Re: your last paragraph: I think we’re finding out just how many indecent citizens inhabit this country. The hate and ignorance is staggering.
I don’t think decent people did vote for him. Voting for a person would be the definition of indecency.
Possibly because the alternative was something they considered worse. Kamala Harris was a corrupt and cruel puppet candidate of the worst order for neo-cons and worse. At least Trump is an evil they can see and understand (or think they can). Not nearly enough criticism is levelled at the democrats for encouraging weak candidates, discouraging real competition within its party, and trying to sell us all a dud candidate when it thought it could (first Biden, then Harris). Worth considering that perhaps some blame ought to go their way.
Nope, sorry, not buying it. Harris's "faults" were gender, skin color, and Israel, none of which she could do anything about. Everything else is just weak rationalization of naked desire for power to control others.
Kamala Harris is a cruel puppet? Care to provide some fact based evidence for this risible nonsense?
Kamala's only mistake was not being endorsed by Fox News. The sensational, emotional slant provided by right wing outlets will always appeal more than critical thinking and facts to the strapped, stressed undereducated tribes of working people. Biden and Harris both understand this, but he is better at that emotional connection. And Faux News really played up his declining mental status. If only she had had more time...
What do the Democrats do going forward? The republicans have locked up the white male working class, white conservative Christians, and all of the people who are motivated by racial/cultural/religious antagonism.
That leaves out all of the liberals of different races, many women and most of the people who are not white, people who believe in facts and reality and education. But apparently this group will continue to lose to the first group on election day. That happened in 2016 and 2024.
Of course, some Democrats have the tendency to think of reasons to not vote. Remember in 2016 some women said that they saw no difference between Ms. Clinton and Donald. Some said that she did not exhibit sufficient empathy.
Does Donald exhibit empathy? Three differences between Ms. Clinton and Donald are Kavanagh, Gorsuch, and Barret. These people would not be on the Supreme Court if Ms. Clinton had won and Roe would probably still be the law of the land.
But I am concerned about how the Democrats overcome the republicans skillful use of the culture wars and their help from right-wing media such as FOX which runs propaganda for the republican/religious right wing 24/7.
I agree that Ms. Harris did about as well as she could considering the circumstances.
I love the Democrats, but they have trouble pulling it together on election day.
But in politics if you don't win on election day, you don't win at all.
This is ridiculous. But ridiculous with a grain of truth.
Democrats joined with Republicans in hollowing out the working class, and then were dismissive at best and condescending at worst when the working class sounded the alarm. They now believe, correctly, that Trumpism is a departure from the Democrat/Republican policy consensus. And he is the only one directly speaking at all to the legitimate fears of the working class.
Harris was no more 'weak' than any other candidate that would have been put forward by the Democrats under a more competitive process. Just like anyone else they would have put forward if Biden hadn't run, she was saying all the wrong things in the campaign. She was absolutely typical of what Democrats think win elections. They are wrong. Wrong because Democrats don't even understand what is wrong.
But, Trump is the wrong answer to the right question. Trump understands far better than Democrats what is wrong, but he is nevertheless the wrong person to address it. He will likely just make things worse for the working class.
But it is ridiculous to believe she was a 'puppet candidate'. 60% of the Democratic party simply doesn't understand what's wrong, and she's just representative of that 60%. That's not 'puppet'. That's representation.
Never forget that what trump says he will do includes anything at all that has already happened under Biden- if it helps trump he will claim HE did it !!! The man cannot be trusted for anything but lies, cheating & stealing to enhance HIMSELF ! The public are just too ignorant to see what he is doing. He is the most tiresome & revolting human on the planet !
I thought I was overreacting, but you're even more alarmed than I am. It certainly does feel like the end of the American Age.