You're not the only one demoralized, Professor! I read Josh's article a bit ago, as well. It offered some hope. I'd feel better if a few other folks I similarly respect reach the same conclusion. I sure hope the Ds in the senate get motivated to make some leadership changes.
One does have to consider that the House CR expires on Nov 21, in 11 days, so the House would have to meet and pass another, regardless, so the House will have to open.
If the House does not pass this one from the Senate "as is" and simply puts a new date on their old one, the Dems could start the filibuster all over again, I assume, because it will be a new CR bill.
This is just my thinking, or guess, on this.
Also, the House will be on record, either way, as voting for this or ignoring the problem, which I do not think anyone hoping for reelection will do with angry constituents who are seeing premiums rise. Unlike the Senate, they are all up for reelection in 2026.
So, it maybe good that this ball is back in the House's court and they will have to vote by the 21 anyway and take ownership after the fallout from so many getting increases on their ACA bills and also have to seat Grijalva. Their "recess potential" will soon end and Epstein will be back on the table, as well. Maybe some in the House will defect and join up with the Dems in a vote.
We can hope there is a method to this madness and I get the feeling there is.
And in the House, there will be one unsurprising surprise crossover - Marjorie Taylor Greenbacks. She's been out there trashing the increase in health insurance costs. I guess she's getting an earful from her constituents.
“I guess she's getting an earful from her constituents.”
More likely she’s positioning for a run against Georgia senator Ossoff or for governor. Nothing these people do is truly for the sake of their constituents, it’s always advancing their own interests in some way.
Agree completely, Les. I don't believe for a nanosecond that MTG has left the Dark Side. She has simply done the math and is sticking to her strong suit: expediency.
That's true, but she can't advance her interests without those constituents. And Ossoff will sweep the mat with her anyway. She's better off hanging onto her current job.
Also with CAs new districts, any GOP with new boundaries will likely either soon retire or move more towards the center in hope of reelection, or maybe even flip to independent or Dem. There is now more "incentive" for perhaps 5 CA congresspeople to ally more with Jefferies and Dems. We will see.
Let's hope for the best. If the House was allowed to pass another CR on the 21st without this they may have made it for a year and then there would have also been no protection for food stamps. With this one, if the GOP misbehave the Dems can try again and food stamps will be guaranteed until the end of the fiscal year, as well. I think they passed this because Johnson would have made the next CR even worse.
I like your thinking. They had been deadlocked for so long it was just a stalemate at this point. I was not mad over it and this gets the ball back into play now. These people who voted had nothing to gain personally from the “offense”. Well it is what it is and now we can keep trying to fight to rid this country of the evil predators.
After the Senate passes the new CR it has to go back to the House, right? And they have to be "in session" to vote on it. And if they are in session, then the have to swear in Adelita Grijalva who will immediately sign the petition to release the Epstein files.
And then you get a heavily redacted file where anything that starts with a ‘T’ is blacked out. Then files recently added by the administration falsely naming high ranking Dems as visitors to the island. I wouldn’t trust any of the files handed over by this administration. Somewhere someone has a clean version akin to the Pentagon Papers decades ago. Once a reporter publishes those files, only then will you have the truth.
I'm not a parliamentarian, either, but I'll believe it when I see it. My fear is that not bringing the House into session is another step in giving the P2025 people indefinite control of the government. After all, Rump has gotten away so far with spending our tax revenue any way he wants. With no formal budget, he's got free rein. Is SCOTUS going to stop him? Even if they ruled against him, how would they enforce it?
Yes they do - we kicked ass last week all across the country. We proved that Trump and MAGAT will literally starve children and babies for political power. We proved that MAGAT and Trump will put the lives of people in danger on airplanes in our skies. We proved that Trump and MAGAT will literally let children fighting cancer die because of Trump health insurance costs that their parents cannot afford while Trump and MAGAT gives tax cuts to billionaires and crypto queens ! We have a lot to fight for here. We knew health insurance healthcare is a fight with MAGAT as well as Medicaid because Republicans don’t believe in either. So the question to you is, are you a fighter Democrat or are you MAGAT?
Unfortunately, I doubt that we've proved these things to the Republicans. I'm sure they are blaming the Democrats for the shutdown. And people who need SNAP benefits are to blame because they're lazy and god hasn't looked favorably upon them.
I think my earlier reply didn't make it. I was trying to be civil in my first comment. I think there's a number of D senators who need to realize it's a different world than the one they grew up in, and it's better to step aside from party positions voluntarily than be ejected. For all the complaints life in Congress must offer a lot to some of them, since they seem super-glued in place. I hope the various takes on the situation the folks below are offering come to pass. Sunday night was a rather gut-wrenching end to the week that started with Tue's election. Hopefully there is a pony in all that manure those D senators dumped. :-)
I think the magats king ‘gilded age’ gatsby guy who has us paying for his parties with women dancing in martini glasses should realize all you said. Many of the older democrats are indeed or have retired. We kicked ass and elected a younger generation of public servants all over the country while wiping out 10 years of damaging gains by magat. Magat elected an obviously old man with vascular dementia who pretty sure had a left hemispheric stroke who revels in the ‘gilded age’ at our expense who is a dictator in love with fascism who courts dictators and now is going to entertain a formerly jailed jihadist labeled a terrorist with a bounty on his head now President of Syria to the Oval Office: Syria's president caps unlikely rise with Trump meeting. So now Trump entertains terrorists ! The problem here is not democrats it is a deeply damaged sick traitor harming this country and the American people
Not sure why anyone thinks that democrats have unlimited power to wield here when magat literally runs and hides. Dems just proved they stand with the American people and after 40 days of fighting for them magat and trump only care about Trump and still don’t give a shit about them! Meanwhile, people are going to get the Trump insurance premium bills that they will have to pay starting January 1 and if Trump and MAGAT refuse to vote for the people with democrats to get those costs lowered in the so-called December vote or pull that vote then the people in red states and all over the country who get those bills are either gonna go uninsured get sick have their kids under cancer treatments die because they lost or can’t pay Trump premiums - or Trump and magat will cave to the Democrats and work with them on ACA funding and subsidies!
King is not a Democrat so not a reliable vote to us. People need to remember that democrats are always for the people and they have been harmed by magat and trump enough. Trump and magat are still trashing health insurance for little kids fighting cancer whose parents now can’t afford treatment and will die. Same for others! Healthcare is still the central issue and people need to feed their kids and families and keep a roof over their heads. Democrats are for people not power plays over political parties for their own gain! That is Trump and magat. The fight continues!!
Actually King is a reliable vote. He rarely votes with Republicans but being an Independent in Maine is more acceptable than being a Democrat, even if that is what you actually are.
Let's see how much the Democrats, or anyone, supports all those people who will lose their health care due to exorbitant price increases. And who will pay their cancer treatment bills. You can't make change if you don't have the power. The Dems don't. Nor does anyone in Congress truly understand how single payer health insurance need to be done except Bernie Sanders. The Socialist. I am done with voting until I die. There is no point. This country is quickly becoming another Russia.
You saw last week the power of our vote and we wiped out 10 years of MAGAT gains in last week’s off year elections. We haven’t even voted the midterms yet!
I saw one election. Voters have short memories. 2026 is eons away. Voters are, as a whole, not very savvy, nor do they pay attention. I hold out little positive vibes.
The situation that we are in is the voters fault. Remember Donald Trump‘s base is 32%. The rest of them are either go along or they did not want to vote for Kamala. If you want more of the same, you either don’t show up to the polls or you vote for Trump but even if they vote for Trump, we still outnumber them if we show up. So we have to show up to vote. The midterms may be eons away, but we have already gained power in states as of this coming January 1. There are more Democrats seated than there has been in over 10 years, there are more democratic, governors, and red states lost super majorities.
A lot of stuff is still going on especially with ice, and if Trump doesn’t play ball with Democrats on lowering prescription drug costs and health insurance premium costs - affordability is the number one issue going into the midterms as it was last week and we have that on our side .
Who were the 8? I literally cannot stomach reading the news today and I'm staying away from it to keep my blood pressure down. I know King, Shaheen and Kaine, but who else?
Fetterman, of course! I will be voting for his opponent in the primary. Really sorry I voted for Fetterman instead of Conor Lamb. I think Shaheen also voted for it. Can't remember the others.
You have to remember as well that democrats stand with the American people above all else and we would not be able to be legitimate if we continued to let kids elderly our vets not have food to eat or people not have jobs or a paycheck and having people flying unsafely in the skies. Democrats just kicked ass and we have the power while Trump/magat proved they will starve kids elderly vets families and they will let kids fighting cancer die now because parents cannot afford to pay Trump magat health insurance premiums and won’t get the kids and elderly and vets and disabled their Medicaid. So let’s stop the back stabbing and use the power we have to go after magat and dementia don on killing kids if they don’t work with democrats and vote for the bill democrats are writing right now on ACA … anything less diminishes all we have accomplished all over the country
After reading your posts thus far, I believe you have truly drunk the Establishment Dem Kool-Aid.
If the MAGAs do nothing that the Dems want after their concession (a near certainty), then how, exactly, do we "go after" Dementia Don? What if he still won't pay SNAP benefits, still won't pay back wages to government employees, still won't fund the research you mention, and the healthcare subsidies are still gone? What, exactly, have the eight spineless Dems accomplished?
The Dems have just relinquished any advantage they had, and have shown that, once again, when the going gets tough, they give in.
And as far as that "ass kicking" last week, there are still more Rethug governors, more Rethugs in the Senate and House. We have no idea whether there will even BE midterms next year, let alone free and fair ones. The Dems' relinquishing any small leverage they have is just plain cowardly and stupid. If there's some uber-cunning, Machiavellian maneuver in play, I'll admit my error, but I'm not holding my breath.
Come on now! Magat is the majority party and millions understand that! Dems are fighting but have very limited power. The ass kicking last week got a few things but when Trump does cut off food and healthcare and people are literally dying, including children and infants who, for example, are receiving cancer treatments who no longer can get them because of Trump insurance premium costs, that is on Trump that is not on Democrats. We decide in 2026. It is up to us the people to stop Trump not 10 Democrats in a Congress of hundreds most of whom are refusing to do their jobs. Dems have relinquished nothing they are still fighting.
Read this in its entirety from TPM. Copy to your URL.
Still lesser of two evils with the added fact Dems actually give a shit about people while Trump/magat care about slut gatsby parties with women ‘dancing’ in martini glasses, trump gold ballroom costing 300 MILLION, trump marble bathrooms … magat you now know that money is not being spent on them! And now Trump insurance premiums will definitely kill kids fighting cancer because parents won’t be able to continue treatments because Trump insurance premiums are way too expensive for them to be able to pay! Democrats have always stood for workers and the American people. MAGAT and Trump are all about tax cuts for billionaires and crypto queens and gold ballrooms and living off of the workers. That’s not the lesser of two evils that is the difference between Real governance and fraudulent grifters. Whether democrat, independent or republican, people have to learn to vote for who has your best interests and it is not Trump or MAGAT and it never will be. Vote blue!!!!
Tim Kaine represents federal workers who aren’t getting a paycheck or who lost their jobs after furlough which they will now get back and with back pay. We kicked ass last week historically and we have the power to move it forward to get folks back to work food in their bellies safety in the skies and now move on to proving just how magat and Don the demented are killers by raising health insurance premiums to what Trump wants and thus how many kids will die, who are receiving cancer treatments, and now whose parents will not be able to afford them! We have a fight here that we are on the right side of so back stabbing in the party will only weaken that. Let’s wish our fellow Americans well as they head back to work more able now to at least put food on their table and feed their families and let’s get back to work on healthcare fight . No one said that fighting fascism with traitors was going to be easy so the question to you all is Are you in???
Those federal workers gained a temporary reprieve, not a return to a dependable job. The chaos will continue as long as the MAGAnarchists are anywhere near power.
Then it is up to us to get them a paycheck and then vote for Dems and get them the super majority … I do not know why anyone thinks this can’t be done. We just wiped out 10 years of gains in off year elections and we haven’t even had midterms vote yet!
This legislation will protect federal workers from baseless firings, reinstate those who have been wrongfully terminated during the shutdown, and ensure federal workers receive back pay, as required by a law I got passed in 2019,” Kaine said. “That's a critical step that will help federal employees and all Americans who rely on government services.”
We need your wisdom and your voice, Dr. Krugman. Your next post cannot come soon enough.
I need a day, too, to pick myself up off the ground after being sucker punched in the face by eight clueless, self-serving Senators with nothing to lose.
Schumer didn't capitulate this time. He's not the one to blame. That doesn't mean I won't vote for whoever primaries him, it just means this one time it's not his fault.
He f...... orchestrated this, by getting 8 politicians not up for reelection to vote for this and acting like he and none of the other people facing elections have anything to do with it.
That sounds about right - rather than us having to believe that Schumer did not have control despite him caving in so many times before. Cave ins and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory? It's his brand.
While it's true he does have a history of capitulating, and it is entirely possible that he did indeed orchestrate it, I have to reserve my judgement unless and until I see definitive evidence. "Sounds right" doesn't cut it. I need proof.
Great job, @schumer.senate.gov. You've changed the story from "GOP hurting millions of Americans to please unpopular, failing, delusional despot who's destroying his party" to "Dems are too weak and divided in the face of Trump's strength to take a stand and protect Americans"
Yes, it’s very disappointing. But based on the responses here, we might as well just give up now and never vote again. And then we’ll have the trump regime forever.
You're right. We really need to stay vigilant and ensure that the Big Beautiful Blue Tsunami sweeps away the reichwing status quo. We've been "trickled down" on enough.
I've got to wonder if it's actually a win. It showed conclusively that the GOP remains laser-focused on further destruction of the health care system in this country, and a win by the Dems would have taken this off the table as a key issue in the midterms. As painful as this is, saving the GOP yet again was not going to be a winning move. In terms of food security, it was clear the GOP is completely happy to see its own constituents starve, and that Trump is more involved with his beautiful new bathroom and a ballroom that looks more and more like an incompetently-managed construction project every day. It has also brought to the fore the shocking statistic that 1 in 8 Americans has reliance on SNAP. I'm also considering how little some of the more educated Americans around me know about what's going on and how the government works, and it's appalling. Perhaps these events will get through to a few people.
When these deals happen there are always exactly the minimum number of votes changed. It has to be a deliberate move, not just some random" caving". I noted also Schumer's bid to extend the ACA subsidies for a year, which would have similarly taken it off the table for midterms and I suspect that was testing the waters rather than a serious offer.
Unfortunately the Nazis have reappeared in the form of Alt fur Deutschland - and cheered on by VP JD Vance in his Munich speech. He also met with AFD during the German February campaign period.
The Navajo reservation is semi-arid land and sparsely populated - hauling water was a way of life when I was there in 1976. As some of the most remote areas of the US running water sounds like a practical nonstarter for much of the reservation. That's a different issue from access to water... I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions about the SCOTUS decision but I'm also unclear how that relates to my comment.
Dig Deep is providing water to the Navajo reservation. For the cost of the gilded ballroom, they could meet that objective. I thought the relevancy was the magnitude of unmet basic needs (SNAP and water). At least that was my intention.
I’m a retired middle school guidance counselor who has seen this behavior many times before. IMHO, we need to remain calm, take a step back and assess whether these democrats have been threatened or pressured, or had threats or pressure exerted against their families. Each senator should be interrogated by authorities in the states that elected them. I think it all comes back to Epstein. I believe it’s the most direct path to impeachment and that the resistance is coming from perpetrators on both sides. Plus Thanksgiving travel is looming.
Given that states don’t have the right to order their US Senators to report home for interrogation (!!!). I’d like to see all 8 senators voluntarily submit to depositions in their home states.
Catherine Cortez: NV***
Jacky Rosen: NV***
Dick Durbin: IL, my home state. My heart is breaking.
John Fetterman, PA
Maggie Hassan NH
Jeanne Shahan NH
Angus King Maine
Tim Kaine, Va, former running mate of Hillary Clinton
I don’t think the senators you mentioned voted to cave? Ossoff is vulnerable and I understood that he still voted no. May need to check on who those eight are.
The ability of Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory should not be underestimated. On the bright side I can ignore their demands for my money without regret.
Both my senators (NH) crossed over to vote with the R’s. Doubly betrayed, and not surprised. Hassan isn’t up for reelection until 28, and Shaheen isn’t running again, but her daughter is running for the congressional seat of the rep who is running for her mother’s seat. I don’t think so. I’m sick of politics as the family business. It’s not an inheritance. It’s all too cozy.
Geez couldn't Schumer and "the cavers" have waited another week to let us bask in the tremendous wins from. Just last week?! 7 days would not make a difference in the suffering of tens of millions.
Yesterday there was a large food donation drive in Albany, NY. When I dropped off my donations people were lining up! We're living a nightmare
None of the Senators are from my state. I did try calling a couple of offices last night but just got recordings and couldn't leave a message. So glad you were able to get through.
Do you think the gaming and airline industry lobbies berated them about disrupted air traffic impacts on Vegas and Reno and they decided that was more significant than healthcare and food security for poor people? If so, it seems improbable that trying to sustain tourism in a bad economy will be enough to offset the impact of healthcare and food insecurity on Nevadans.
I don't know. I, perhaps uncharitably, wondered if it's because they are both women...but not all of the 8 were women. I hardly think the shutdown will impact tourism more than the things Trump has already done that have caused foreigners to stay away, and the ICE presence/raids in LV have really disrupted life for so many people there. Not surprisingly I couldn't speak to an actual person when I called, but I left messages and also submitted email contact forms. I hope they get inundated with calls from unhappy/betrayed voters.
When my ancestors migrated to the Americas centuries ago they never saw their relatives back in Europe again, and postal service was virtually non existent. They weren’t the only ones, which makes it hard to understand how a nation founded by such immigrants has decided to jettison profound issues like healthcare, food security and democratic governance in favor of seeing relatives on a holiday dedicated to the overconsumption of food. It’s especially troubling when alternative but inconvenient forms of travel exist. This prioritizing of the convenient and personal over the inconvenient and societal is why our nation is in its current predicament.
You miss the big point. Everyone has to worry about the high cost of healthcare. Even those on employer plans are seeing premiums increase. I'm on Medicare and have a supplemental policy, our premiums have gone up more than the cost of inflation such that our Social Security COLA goes to pay the increase in the premium. Keeping the government shut down won't solve the greater issue of the dysfunctional American system. We also have 5000 NIH research fellows who are on furlough and cannot work right now. Is this OK with you?
Cool your jets, Alan. None of that is "okay" with me. It's also not okay for the usual sell-out Dems to acquiesce to fascist Repugs who have already shown they have zero interest in negotiating in good faith. They are being complicit with trump and his minions quest to destroy the federal government. These are the same Democrats who voted several times to confirm trump's cabinet and judicial nominees, when they should have been doing the opposite. Fetterman is particularly a fraud, he may as well change parties. We don't need a controlled opposition party that ends up enabling this fascist regime. If voters lose faith in Democrats after this debacle, there may not be any further blue wave like last week. That's if we even have midterm elections. Btw, my husband is a psychologist who has already been impacted by the cruel and vindictive actions of the current regime.
I sincerely hope you're able to see your daughter this month.
I am SO freaking angry ...FAA was just about to limit private jet which would have had the Bros screaming at 2.0.
At least Jack got magic beans when he traded the family cow. They traded a strong position for a promise from a group who has already proved themselves liars and untrustworthy.
Makes me want to quit … I feel sad & trapped …. Dems are the codependent enabling spouse to MAGAs addicted narcissist…. And mom just let dad go with a pass for his behavior…. Kids planning our escape because it’s hard to see this ever be anything but another dead end…… he says next time me will be different…. We just pray next time he doesn’t kill us all & blame us for it. America is sick and both parents are infected.!!!! Uggghh
We are choosing to tell the narrative of "Dems divided and cave, GOP wins". Might I offer an alternative narrative. Through this shutdown it has become abundantly clear who is trying to help with subsidized health care just as premiums spike (now tie this to what happens in 2027 because of BBB). Secondly, it has become abundantly clear who cares about those facing food insecurity; the GOP not only fighting against SNAP in court but refusing to spend already allocated funds. Thirdly, the administration was willing to cause air traffic chaos over Thanksgiving to inflict further pain. Fourth, since DJT has such a stranglehold over his party, the GOP doesn't dare to cross him; he didn't care how long the shutdown lasted, he wasn't feeling any pain. Lastly, the juxtaposition of the parties at Mar-a-Lago as Americans suffered is a gold mine for DEMS.
As to primary those who made a courageous choice, do DEMS want the party to become more extreme? Think back to all the elections lost in other than safe districts by the GOP when a more moderate candidate was primaried by a more MAGA candidate. Mamdani may be great for NY; I'm not sure he wins in VA, NC and OH. And please remember the Manchin effect. A DEM senator from a Trump +43 state who voted with the DEMS 93% of the time.
I accept that I'm a contrarian here, but we need to not get caught up in our own echo chamber, nor to choose a self-fulfilling narrative.
Thank you. Expecting to catch a lot of incoming for this post, but my wife would tell you I'm too stupid to keep my mouth shut. ;-) Glad to know there are others who are at least open to an alternative narrative.
You're not the only one demoralized, Professor! I read Josh's article a bit ago, as well. It offered some hope. I'd feel better if a few other folks I similarly respect reach the same conclusion. I sure hope the Ds in the senate get motivated to make some leadership changes.
One does have to consider that the House CR expires on Nov 21, in 11 days, so the House would have to meet and pass another, regardless, so the House will have to open.
If the House does not pass this one from the Senate "as is" and simply puts a new date on their old one, the Dems could start the filibuster all over again, I assume, because it will be a new CR bill.
This is just my thinking, or guess, on this.
Also, the House will be on record, either way, as voting for this or ignoring the problem, which I do not think anyone hoping for reelection will do with angry constituents who are seeing premiums rise. Unlike the Senate, they are all up for reelection in 2026.
So, it maybe good that this ball is back in the House's court and they will have to vote by the 21 anyway and take ownership after the fallout from so many getting increases on their ACA bills and also have to seat Grijalva. Their "recess potential" will soon end and Epstein will be back on the table, as well. Maybe some in the House will defect and join up with the Dems in a vote.
We can hope there is a method to this madness and I get the feeling there is.
And in the House, there will be one unsurprising surprise crossover - Marjorie Taylor Greenbacks. She's been out there trashing the increase in health insurance costs. I guess she's getting an earful from her constituents.
“I guess she's getting an earful from her constituents.”
More likely she’s positioning for a run against Georgia senator Ossoff or for governor. Nothing these people do is truly for the sake of their constituents, it’s always advancing their own interests in some way.
Agree completely, Les. I don't believe for a nanosecond that MTG has left the Dark Side. She has simply done the math and is sticking to her strong suit: expediency.
That's true, but she can't advance her interests without those constituents. And Ossoff will sweep the mat with her anyway. She's better off hanging onto her current job.
She can if they ensure that the next election is not free and fair.
Well, yeah, that's true. It's up to us to ensure they can't do that.
Also with CAs new districts, any GOP with new boundaries will likely either soon retire or move more towards the center in hope of reelection, or maybe even flip to independent or Dem. There is now more "incentive" for perhaps 5 CA congresspeople to ally more with Jefferies and Dems. We will see.
I'm looking forward to that.
And the last vote for the resolution to release the Epstein Files will have to be sworn in. How will pedo protector Mini Mike deal with that?
The thought occurred to me that these politicians are far too engaged in playing games than in actually legislating. They are all useless.
You make some good points...
Let's hope for the best. If the House was allowed to pass another CR on the 21st without this they may have made it for a year and then there would have also been no protection for food stamps. With this one, if the GOP misbehave the Dems can try again and food stamps will be guaranteed until the end of the fiscal year, as well. I think they passed this because Johnson would have made the next CR even worse.
I like your thinking. They had been deadlocked for so long it was just a stalemate at this point. I was not mad over it and this gets the ball back into play now. These people who voted had nothing to gain personally from the “offense”. Well it is what it is and now we can keep trying to fight to rid this country of the evil predators.
After the Senate passes the new CR it has to go back to the House, right? And they have to be "in session" to vote on it. And if they are in session, then the have to swear in Adelita Grijalva who will immediately sign the petition to release the Epstein files.
And then ALL HELL WILL (SHOULD) BREAK LOOSE!
And then you get a heavily redacted file where anything that starts with a ‘T’ is blacked out. Then files recently added by the administration falsely naming high ranking Dems as visitors to the island. I wouldn’t trust any of the files handed over by this administration. Somewhere someone has a clean version akin to the Pentagon Papers decades ago. Once a reporter publishes those files, only then will you have the truth.
But there are hundreds of witnesses, and almost all of them have no reason to lie.
Instead of redacting, I can see them changing actual names to person of interest 1 etc.
At any rate, if the don't release the entire set of files, it will be really bad for Trump, the DOJ, SCOTUS and the Republicans.
Do we know for sure that Johnson will, in fact, gavel the House into session?
I am not a parliamentarian, but I believe he will have to to vote on the new CR.
I'm not a parliamentarian, either, but I'll believe it when I see it. My fear is that not bringing the House into session is another step in giving the P2025 people indefinite control of the government. After all, Rump has gotten away so far with spending our tax revenue any way he wants. With no formal budget, he's got free rein. Is SCOTUS going to stop him? Even if they ruled against him, how would they enforce it?
All good questions Denise.
Mr. Pickle: Are you suggesting that the Democrats actually HAVE any leadership now?
Yes they do - we kicked ass last week all across the country. We proved that Trump and MAGAT will literally starve children and babies for political power. We proved that MAGAT and Trump will put the lives of people in danger on airplanes in our skies. We proved that Trump and MAGAT will literally let children fighting cancer die because of Trump health insurance costs that their parents cannot afford while Trump and MAGAT gives tax cuts to billionaires and crypto queens ! We have a lot to fight for here. We knew health insurance healthcare is a fight with MAGAT as well as Medicaid because Republicans don’t believe in either. So the question to you is, are you a fighter Democrat or are you MAGAT?
You should watch an hour or two of fox crap, to better realize what half of America gets spoon fed daily
Fox like Trump is a fraudulent grift. Fox is sickening truly but remember Trump base is now like 32% …. loud mouths but nowhere a majority now
"Yes they do - we kicked ass last week all across the country"
That was the voters and Schumer's Senate which poked a finger in their eyes.
If it did not matter - why start one.
Schumer himself didn't capitulate - not this time.
He is a very poor, weak, leader if he couldn't stop these eight persons from committing treason.
Yes. That he definitely is. He'll be gone in 2028 - voluntarily or otherwise.
You might as well believe that Pres. T. is not responsible when Hegseth or Rubio or Vought are doing their thang.
That's hardly comparable.
Your analysis is very insightful. The problem still remains of getting this message to the public, especially but not exclusively, MAGA.
The reichwing propaganda machine is a perpetual onslaught of BS. It'll be tough to get around that for sure.
This is a perfect example of Brandolini’s Law:
“The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.”
—Italian [computer] programmer Alberto Brandolini
At least one order of magnitude. 😂
Unfortunately, I doubt that we've proved these things to the Republicans. I'm sure they are blaming the Democrats for the shutdown. And people who need SNAP benefits are to blame because they're lazy and god hasn't looked favorably upon them.
So who cares about republicans and what they think. Democrats and independents are blaming them and we outnumber them
I think my earlier reply didn't make it. I was trying to be civil in my first comment. I think there's a number of D senators who need to realize it's a different world than the one they grew up in, and it's better to step aside from party positions voluntarily than be ejected. For all the complaints life in Congress must offer a lot to some of them, since they seem super-glued in place. I hope the various takes on the situation the folks below are offering come to pass. Sunday night was a rather gut-wrenching end to the week that started with Tue's election. Hopefully there is a pony in all that manure those D senators dumped. :-)
I think the magats king ‘gilded age’ gatsby guy who has us paying for his parties with women dancing in martini glasses should realize all you said. Many of the older democrats are indeed or have retired. We kicked ass and elected a younger generation of public servants all over the country while wiping out 10 years of damaging gains by magat. Magat elected an obviously old man with vascular dementia who pretty sure had a left hemispheric stroke who revels in the ‘gilded age’ at our expense who is a dictator in love with fascism who courts dictators and now is going to entertain a formerly jailed jihadist labeled a terrorist with a bounty on his head now President of Syria to the Oval Office: Syria's president caps unlikely rise with Trump meeting. So now Trump entertains terrorists ! The problem here is not democrats it is a deeply damaged sick traitor harming this country and the American people
Marshall's column is weak beer. Not entirely devoid of flavor, but nearly so. See Jay Kuo's Substack: https://statuskuo.substack.com/p/the-surrender-caucus.
Also see Robert Hubbell's post: https://roberthubbell.substack.com/p/the-sellout-caucus.
Who’s Josh? I would like to read what he said.
That would be Josh Marshall writing at "https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-quick-take-on-team-caves-big-win". Sorry I couldn't find a way to get a link you can actually click on!
Team cave’s cave, even if bright spot, has really bad optics
Not sure why anyone thinks that democrats have unlimited power to wield here when magat literally runs and hides. Dems just proved they stand with the American people and after 40 days of fighting for them magat and trump only care about Trump and still don’t give a shit about them! Meanwhile, people are going to get the Trump insurance premium bills that they will have to pay starting January 1 and if Trump and MAGAT refuse to vote for the people with democrats to get those costs lowered in the so-called December vote or pull that vote then the people in red states and all over the country who get those bills are either gonna go uninsured get sick have their kids under cancer treatments die because they lost or can’t pay Trump premiums - or Trump and magat will cave to the Democrats and work with them on ACA funding and subsidies!
Ok...didn't realize it would become an actual link once I submitted the reply. Hopefully you don't hit a paywall for just that one story.
I just clicked on the link to Josh Marshall’s post, and it went through.
The dems caving is demoralizing and devastating. A big FU to the 8 of them (including Sen King).
King is not a Democrat so not a reliable vote to us. People need to remember that democrats are always for the people and they have been harmed by magat and trump enough. Trump and magat are still trashing health insurance for little kids fighting cancer whose parents now can’t afford treatment and will die. Same for others! Healthcare is still the central issue and people need to feed their kids and families and keep a roof over their heads. Democrats are for people not power plays over political parties for their own gain! That is Trump and magat. The fight continues!!
Actually King is a reliable vote. He rarely votes with Republicans but being an Independent in Maine is more acceptable than being a Democrat, even if that is what you actually are.
No he isn’t as he voted with republicans in October to end the shutdown. No Maine is not a reliable state to democrats
That might soon change.
Susan Collins really has to be voted out
I couldn't agree more. She's gotta go.
I daresay that it will not be too long before being an independent anywhere will be more acceptable than being a Democrat.
"...being an Independent in Maine is more acceptable than being a Democrat..."
Not for long!
Let's see how much the Democrats, or anyone, supports all those people who will lose their health care due to exorbitant price increases. And who will pay their cancer treatment bills. You can't make change if you don't have the power. The Dems don't. Nor does anyone in Congress truly understand how single payer health insurance need to be done except Bernie Sanders. The Socialist. I am done with voting until I die. There is no point. This country is quickly becoming another Russia.
Votes are now one gains power. Don’t cede that power to the trump regime by your not voting.
Barb the Dems kicked ass last week and wiped out 10 years of magat gains! Of course Dems have power! And magat/trump knows it.
Democrats have always supported those who need help with insurance and healthcare!
You saw last week the power of our vote and we wiped out 10 years of MAGAT gains in last week’s off year elections. We haven’t even voted the midterms yet!
I saw one election. Voters have short memories. 2026 is eons away. Voters are, as a whole, not very savvy, nor do they pay attention. I hold out little positive vibes.
The situation that we are in is the voters fault. Remember Donald Trump‘s base is 32%. The rest of them are either go along or they did not want to vote for Kamala. If you want more of the same, you either don’t show up to the polls or you vote for Trump but even if they vote for Trump, we still outnumber them if we show up. So we have to show up to vote. The midterms may be eons away, but we have already gained power in states as of this coming January 1. There are more Democrats seated than there has been in over 10 years, there are more democratic, governors, and red states lost super majorities.
A lot of stuff is still going on especially with ice, and if Trump doesn’t play ball with Democrats on lowering prescription drug costs and health insurance premium costs - affordability is the number one issue going into the midterms as it was last week and we have that on our side .
What incentive do Rump and his cult now have to do anything "for the people," since the Dems have caved? Again.
Who were the 8? I literally cannot stomach reading the news today and I'm staying away from it to keep my blood pressure down. I know King, Shaheen and Kaine, but who else?
Fetterman, of course! I will be voting for his opponent in the primary. Really sorry I voted for Fetterman instead of Conor Lamb. I think Shaheen also voted for it. Can't remember the others.
Also Fetterman, Hassan, Cortez Masto, Rosen and Durbin.
Thanks. Their names will live in infamy.
You have to remember as well that democrats stand with the American people above all else and we would not be able to be legitimate if we continued to let kids elderly our vets not have food to eat or people not have jobs or a paycheck and having people flying unsafely in the skies. Democrats just kicked ass and we have the power while Trump/magat proved they will starve kids elderly vets families and they will let kids fighting cancer die now because parents cannot afford to pay Trump magat health insurance premiums and won’t get the kids and elderly and vets and disabled their Medicaid. So let’s stop the back stabbing and use the power we have to go after magat and dementia don on killing kids if they don’t work with democrats and vote for the bill democrats are writing right now on ACA … anything less diminishes all we have accomplished all over the country
After reading your posts thus far, I believe you have truly drunk the Establishment Dem Kool-Aid.
If the MAGAs do nothing that the Dems want after their concession (a near certainty), then how, exactly, do we "go after" Dementia Don? What if he still won't pay SNAP benefits, still won't pay back wages to government employees, still won't fund the research you mention, and the healthcare subsidies are still gone? What, exactly, have the eight spineless Dems accomplished?
The Dems have just relinquished any advantage they had, and have shown that, once again, when the going gets tough, they give in.
And as far as that "ass kicking" last week, there are still more Rethug governors, more Rethugs in the Senate and House. We have no idea whether there will even BE midterms next year, let alone free and fair ones. The Dems' relinquishing any small leverage they have is just plain cowardly and stupid. If there's some uber-cunning, Machiavellian maneuver in play, I'll admit my error, but I'm not holding my breath.
We just had elections and kicked ass - 10 years of gains for magat wiped out and that was not even midterms! Don’t get sucked in to magat kool aid
Come on now! Magat is the majority party and millions understand that! Dems are fighting but have very limited power. The ass kicking last week got a few things but when Trump does cut off food and healthcare and people are literally dying, including children and infants who, for example, are receiving cancer treatments who no longer can get them because of Trump insurance premium costs, that is on Trump that is not on Democrats. We decide in 2026. It is up to us the people to stop Trump not 10 Democrats in a Congress of hundreds most of whom are refusing to do their jobs. Dems have relinquished nothing they are still fighting.
Read this in its entirety from TPM. Copy to your URL.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-quick-take-on-team-caves-big-win
Dems may have kicked ass because they were the lesser of two evils. With this, how can you even tell?
Still lesser of two evils with the added fact Dems actually give a shit about people while Trump/magat care about slut gatsby parties with women ‘dancing’ in martini glasses, trump gold ballroom costing 300 MILLION, trump marble bathrooms … magat you now know that money is not being spent on them! And now Trump insurance premiums will definitely kill kids fighting cancer because parents won’t be able to continue treatments because Trump insurance premiums are way too expensive for them to be able to pay! Democrats have always stood for workers and the American people. MAGAT and Trump are all about tax cuts for billionaires and crypto queens and gold ballrooms and living off of the workers. That’s not the lesser of two evils that is the difference between Real governance and fraudulent grifters. Whether democrat, independent or republican, people have to learn to vote for who has your best interests and it is not Trump or MAGAT and it never will be. Vote blue!!!!
They certainly will. Sad.
Shaheen is retiring and Fetterman has voted with Trump and went to White House for Trump
You forgot Tim Kaine of Virginia.
Durbin and Shaheen are retiring after 2026.
I was replying to LHS’s post which named King, Shaheen and Kaine.
Tim Kaine represents federal workers who aren’t getting a paycheck or who lost their jobs after furlough which they will now get back and with back pay. We kicked ass last week historically and we have the power to move it forward to get folks back to work food in their bellies safety in the skies and now move on to proving just how magat and Don the demented are killers by raising health insurance premiums to what Trump wants and thus how many kids will die, who are receiving cancer treatments, and now whose parents will not be able to afford them! We have a fight here that we are on the right side of so back stabbing in the party will only weaken that. Let’s wish our fellow Americans well as they head back to work more able now to at least put food on their table and feed their families and let’s get back to work on healthcare fight . No one said that fighting fascism with traitors was going to be easy so the question to you all is Are you in???
Those federal workers gained a temporary reprieve, not a return to a dependable job. The chaos will continue as long as the MAGAnarchists are anywhere near power.
Then it is up to us to get them a paycheck and then vote for Dems and get them the super majority … I do not know why anyone thinks this can’t be done. We just wiped out 10 years of gains in off year elections and we haven’t even had midterms vote yet!
".....federal workers who aren’t getting a paycheck or who lost their jobs after furlough which they will now get back and with back pay."
What makes you think that? Assumes facts not in evidence.
Oh boy I suggest you go read !
This legislation will protect federal workers from baseless firings, reinstate those who have been wrongfully terminated during the shutdown, and ensure federal workers receive back pay, as required by a law I got passed in 2019,” Kaine said. “That's a critical step that will help federal employees and all Americans who rely on government services.”
But when haven't they? It's not because they're weak.
They're complicit.
We need your wisdom and your voice, Dr. Krugman. Your next post cannot come soon enough.
I need a day, too, to pick myself up off the ground after being sucker punched in the face by eight clueless, self-serving Senators with nothing to lose.
Durbin is my stupid guy - we'll be glad to get rid of him - the aged wobbler - some good people are planning to takes his seat...
This is a political issue much more than an economic one.
Schumer has done the political, real life equivalent of T's Ai video of a jet dropping "brown liquid" on the No Kings protesters.
His advisors should be named and shamed for their role in this - even if the senator himself is untouchable.
Schumer didn't capitulate this time. He's not the one to blame. That doesn't mean I won't vote for whoever primaries him, it just means this one time it's not his fault.
He f...... orchestrated this, by getting 8 politicians not up for reelection to vote for this and acting like he and none of the other people facing elections have anything to do with it.
https://bsky.app/profile/samnoack.bsky.social/post/3m5aqwdsmmk2o
That sounds about right - rather than us having to believe that Schumer did not have control despite him caving in so many times before. Cave ins and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory? It's his brand.
While it's true he does have a history of capitulating, and it is entirely possible that he did indeed orchestrate it, I have to reserve my judgement unless and until I see definitive evidence. "Sounds right" doesn't cut it. I need proof.
Meanwhile back in the real world....
Great job, @schumer.senate.gov. You've changed the story from "GOP hurting millions of Americans to please unpopular, failing, delusional despot who's destroying his party" to "Dems are too weak and divided in the face of Trump's strength to take a stand and protect Americans"
https://bsky.app/profile/gregsargent.bsky.social/post/3m5bkkanuqs2z
That's hardly proof. "He said, she said" is what got us into this mess in the first place. That >is< the real world.
Yes, it’s very disappointing. But based on the responses here, we might as well just give up now and never vote again. And then we’ll have the trump regime forever.
You're right. We really need to stay vigilant and ensure that the Big Beautiful Blue Tsunami sweeps away the reichwing status quo. We've been "trickled down" on enough.
OR....if the Dems ever have an advantage again, NOT give in!
What's the point of voting for them if they keep betraying their constituents?
Even if everything you say is accurate, they would be far preferable to the trump regime. I’d vote for a doorknob if it could win against them.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
If they keep betraying their constituents TO Trump, how are they better than Trump?
I've got to wonder if it's actually a win. It showed conclusively that the GOP remains laser-focused on further destruction of the health care system in this country, and a win by the Dems would have taken this off the table as a key issue in the midterms. As painful as this is, saving the GOP yet again was not going to be a winning move. In terms of food security, it was clear the GOP is completely happy to see its own constituents starve, and that Trump is more involved with his beautiful new bathroom and a ballroom that looks more and more like an incompetently-managed construction project every day. It has also brought to the fore the shocking statistic that 1 in 8 Americans has reliance on SNAP. I'm also considering how little some of the more educated Americans around me know about what's going on and how the government works, and it's appalling. Perhaps these events will get through to a few people.
In the sense that "the total destruction of German society was probably the only way to get rid of the Nazis from their culture".
I can't find the origin of that quotation?
When these deals happen there are always exactly the minimum number of votes changed. It has to be a deliberate move, not just some random" caving". I noted also Schumer's bid to extend the ACA subsidies for a year, which would have similarly taken it off the table for midterms and I suspect that was testing the waters rather than a serious offer.
Unfortunately the Nazis have reappeared in the form of Alt fur Deutschland - and cheered on by VP JD Vance in his Munich speech. He also met with AFD during the German February campaign period.
1 Million US residents lack running water. https://www.nature.com/articles/s44284-024-00180-z . SCOTUS decided that we don’t have to provide the Navajo reservation with running water, reportedly in response to pressure by the governors of westerns states who didn’t want to share the Colorado river with the original inhabitants of the land. https://environment.arizona.edu/news/supreme-court-rules-us-not-required-ensure-access-water-navajo-nation
The Navajo reservation is semi-arid land and sparsely populated - hauling water was a way of life when I was there in 1976. As some of the most remote areas of the US running water sounds like a practical nonstarter for much of the reservation. That's a different issue from access to water... I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions about the SCOTUS decision but I'm also unclear how that relates to my comment.
https://www.navajowaterproject.org/
Dig Deep is providing water to the Navajo reservation. For the cost of the gilded ballroom, they could meet that objective. I thought the relevancy was the magnitude of unmet basic needs (SNAP and water). At least that was my intention.
Wow, thanks!
🙏
It is a big win, and yes, the American state is a free fall. Even elected officials representing half of the are powerless.
If nothing else, it certainly did wake up at least a few Americans.
It is possible that the game here is to get the House back in session.
Insightful
That would be good. I’m just getting up but has the Speaker indicated he’ll do tgst?
I’m a retired middle school guidance counselor who has seen this behavior many times before. IMHO, we need to remain calm, take a step back and assess whether these democrats have been threatened or pressured, or had threats or pressure exerted against their families. Each senator should be interrogated by authorities in the states that elected them. I think it all comes back to Epstein. I believe it’s the most direct path to impeachment and that the resistance is coming from perpetrators on both sides. Plus Thanksgiving travel is looming.
That may be the consequence but not sure it was intended.
Corrected list. Thank you again for the feedback.
Given that states don’t have the right to order their US Senators to report home for interrogation (!!!). I’d like to see all 8 senators voluntarily submit to depositions in their home states.
Catherine Cortez: NV***
Jacky Rosen: NV***
Dick Durbin: IL, my home state. My heart is breaking.
John Fetterman, PA
Maggie Hassan NH
Jeanne Shahan NH
Angus King Maine
Tim Kaine, Va, former running mate of Hillary Clinton
***The only ones from a state with recall
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/09/senate-democrats-shutdown-vote-00644146?experience_id=EXYF89KVT5UQ&is_login_link=true&template_id=OTJIR2CRKUD6&variant_id=OTV632IE7RALS
When people behave in unexpected ways, it’s for a reason. I’d like to know what that reason is.
I don’t think the senators you mentioned voted to cave? Ossoff is vulnerable and I understood that he still voted no. May need to check on who those eight are.
You were absolutely right. Thank you again. I corrected my list.
Sen Cortez represents Nevada, not N M. Also Sen Rosen from Nevada is one of the 8 ( see CNN list)
Criminy I just can’t get things right this morning! Thank you!
Thank you! I’ll check the source right now.
The ability of Democrats to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory should not be underestimated. On the bright side I can ignore their demands for my money without regret.
Both my senators (NH) crossed over to vote with the R’s. Doubly betrayed, and not surprised. Hassan isn’t up for reelection until 28, and Shaheen isn’t running again, but her daughter is running for the congressional seat of the rep who is running for her mother’s seat. I don’t think so. I’m sick of politics as the family business. It’s not an inheritance. It’s all too cozy.
Geez couldn't Schumer and "the cavers" have waited another week to let us bask in the tremendous wins from. Just last week?! 7 days would not make a difference in the suffering of tens of millions.
Yesterday there was a large food donation drive in Albany, NY. When I dropped off my donations people were lining up! We're living a nightmare
2 of them are from my state of Nevada. I voted for both of them. You can be sure they heard from me this morning!
None of the Senators are from my state. I did try calling a couple of offices last night but just got recordings and couldn't leave a message. So glad you were able to get through.
Do you think the gaming and airline industry lobbies berated them about disrupted air traffic impacts on Vegas and Reno and they decided that was more significant than healthcare and food security for poor people? If so, it seems improbable that trying to sustain tourism in a bad economy will be enough to offset the impact of healthcare and food insecurity on Nevadans.
I don't know. I, perhaps uncharitably, wondered if it's because they are both women...but not all of the 8 were women. I hardly think the shutdown will impact tourism more than the things Trump has already done that have caused foreigners to stay away, and the ICE presence/raids in LV have really disrupted life for so many people there. Not surprisingly I couldn't speak to an actual person when I called, but I left messages and also submitted email contact forms. I hope they get inundated with calls from unhappy/betrayed voters.
IT WAS THE AIRLINE LOBBYISTS that made these 8 people do it. AND THEY GOT NOTHING!!!! SHAME ON THEM!
So you don't want my daughter to be able to fly home for Thanksgiving? We have not seen here in a year!!!
I wonder if your daughter does not need to worry about healthcare. Millions of Americans do.
When my ancestors migrated to the Americas centuries ago they never saw their relatives back in Europe again, and postal service was virtually non existent. They weren’t the only ones, which makes it hard to understand how a nation founded by such immigrants has decided to jettison profound issues like healthcare, food security and democratic governance in favor of seeing relatives on a holiday dedicated to the overconsumption of food. It’s especially troubling when alternative but inconvenient forms of travel exist. This prioritizing of the convenient and personal over the inconvenient and societal is why our nation is in its current predicament.
You miss the big point. Everyone has to worry about the high cost of healthcare. Even those on employer plans are seeing premiums increase. I'm on Medicare and have a supplemental policy, our premiums have gone up more than the cost of inflation such that our Social Security COLA goes to pay the increase in the premium. Keeping the government shut down won't solve the greater issue of the dysfunctional American system. We also have 5000 NIH research fellows who are on furlough and cannot work right now. Is this OK with you?
Cool your jets, Alan. None of that is "okay" with me. It's also not okay for the usual sell-out Dems to acquiesce to fascist Repugs who have already shown they have zero interest in negotiating in good faith. They are being complicit with trump and his minions quest to destroy the federal government. These are the same Democrats who voted several times to confirm trump's cabinet and judicial nominees, when they should have been doing the opposite. Fetterman is particularly a fraud, he may as well change parties. We don't need a controlled opposition party that ends up enabling this fascist regime. If voters lose faith in Democrats after this debacle, there may not be any further blue wave like last week. That's if we even have midterm elections. Btw, my husband is a psychologist who has already been impacted by the cruel and vindictive actions of the current regime.
I sincerely hope you're able to see your daughter this month.
There are also trains and cars.
I am SO freaking angry ...FAA was just about to limit private jet which would have had the Bros screaming at 2.0.
At least Jack got magic beans when he traded the family cow. They traded a strong position for a promise from a group who has already proved themselves liars and untrustworthy.
🤯
Demoralized and f'king irate!!!! Schumer is worthless and has to resign as "leader". He should resign from the Senate in shame as well.
You don't give in when you're winning, Schumer and Jeffries. No. No. No.
Makes me want to quit … I feel sad & trapped …. Dems are the codependent enabling spouse to MAGAs addicted narcissist…. And mom just let dad go with a pass for his behavior…. Kids planning our escape because it’s hard to see this ever be anything but another dead end…… he says next time me will be different…. We just pray next time he doesn’t kill us all & blame us for it. America is sick and both parents are infected.!!!! Uggghh
We are choosing to tell the narrative of "Dems divided and cave, GOP wins". Might I offer an alternative narrative. Through this shutdown it has become abundantly clear who is trying to help with subsidized health care just as premiums spike (now tie this to what happens in 2027 because of BBB). Secondly, it has become abundantly clear who cares about those facing food insecurity; the GOP not only fighting against SNAP in court but refusing to spend already allocated funds. Thirdly, the administration was willing to cause air traffic chaos over Thanksgiving to inflict further pain. Fourth, since DJT has such a stranglehold over his party, the GOP doesn't dare to cross him; he didn't care how long the shutdown lasted, he wasn't feeling any pain. Lastly, the juxtaposition of the parties at Mar-a-Lago as Americans suffered is a gold mine for DEMS.
As to primary those who made a courageous choice, do DEMS want the party to become more extreme? Think back to all the elections lost in other than safe districts by the GOP when a more moderate candidate was primaried by a more MAGA candidate. Mamdani may be great for NY; I'm not sure he wins in VA, NC and OH. And please remember the Manchin effect. A DEM senator from a Trump +43 state who voted with the DEMS 93% of the time.
I accept that I'm a contrarian here, but we need to not get caught up in our own echo chamber, nor to choose a self-fulfilling narrative.
Very good post!
Thank you. Expecting to catch a lot of incoming for this post, but my wife would tell you I'm too stupid to keep my mouth shut. ;-) Glad to know there are others who are at least open to an alternative narrative.