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John renick's avatar

Has ICE made a visit to any of Trump's hotels, golf courses and what about Mar-A-Lago?

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KMD's avatar

I remember that in Trump's first term there was an article about all the illegal immigrants that were employed at Trump's hotel & golf course in Bedminster, NJ. Sorry, I can't remember where the story was. But you can probably Google it.

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RCThweatt's avatar

The New York Times. Long time employees, who had been furnished with fake documents by the Trump Org, came forward out of disgust with his rhetoric.

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Stefan Paskell's avatar

Link, please?

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RCThweatt's avatar

Google "bedminster staff fake documents nyt" and you'll get a slew of articles, first 12/6/18. No longer a subscriber, so can't verify which articles I read. Note it was something of a scandal, Trump reacted by firing them and "putting it out there" that he would use e-verify from then on. Appears at least one deported. So the staff made statements against interest, as they knew they risked this.

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Stefan Paskell's avatar

Thx. Followed the thread. But really, is anyone surprised?

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

Yes, spam can be bad for my health. So I won't click on your link. And neither should others!

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Frau Katze's avatar

Report the comment. I can’t because thanks to a Substack bug, report doesn’t work from an iPhone.

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PlasticFish's avatar

Nor with my Android phone, alas.

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Lucy's avatar

Check your settings I report all the time

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Janis Lentz's avatar

It’s a fact Trump uses undocumented workers! Hy no raids on HIS businesses/resorts?

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Rena's avatar

We will all assume that this is a rhetorical question. ;)

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Al Keim's avatar

That's Kennedy you were thinking of.

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Stefan Paskell's avatar

Kenedy was ok with the help. We welcomed folks back then.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

Where I first heard about it was on the 4 part series with host Chef Andrew Zimmern called “What’s Eating America?” He interviewed a chef who had worked for Donald for many years & even received employee commendations for excellent job performance; but was fired abruptly when Trump entered politics & began immediately firing up his base with talk of “illegals.”

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Patrick Daniels aka Cromulent1's avatar

I remember that Zim piece as well P. J. He was an interesting character in the Twin Cities for years, as a weatherman!!

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Marc Sobel's avatar

They were from Costa Rica. And he used them for jobs that cost a lot, like bulldozer operations.

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Rena's avatar

As I recall, he also favored undocumented immigrants from Eastern Europe...

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Like the Polish immigrants he hired to destroy the the Bonwit-Teller scuptures.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/donald-trump-bonwit-teller-friezes-met-2132673

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

Right? Trumpkopf is well known for hiring undocumented workers - just so he can get away with indulging in wage theft.

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Philip's avatar

Don't do as I do; do as I say.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

That's the tyrants credo!

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

He probably uses the construction whereby you hire a firm that is legal. That firm then hires another form, that hires the illegal migrants.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

He does, but he hires his domestic help directly.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

Well, he has to check these himself, as does not like them non-white, fat, ugly. I score two out of three, reason I am mopping my own floors and not the ones of Mar-a-Lago.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

He doesn't like them, but he likes exploiting them. Actually, he likes exploiting everyone.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

He is a true American. That is why so many voted for him.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

In case anybody is wondering, I discovered that some trolls can sneak in under the radar for a few comments before identifying themselves as full fledged MAGAnut cult trolls. Once that happens, I just quietly block them. This way, the troll won't see this comment, and I won't have to stomach any more of his/hers/its drivel.

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Lynn's avatar

I’m guessing HIS corporate donors that own farms, buildings, hotels etc will not be affected.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

I’ve noticed that so far, there has not been any big pushes to go raid hog, cattle, & chicken farms; nor any of the giant slaughterhouses & meat processors & packaging plants. No massive raises on all of the giant dairy cow farms either.

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bitchybitchybitchy's avatar

We have a niece who went to college in Nebraska. When I visited her there it was really interesting to see thr growth of a Spanish speaking population in a community about one hour from Omaha.

Likely immigrants came for jobs in meat and poultry processing plants.

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Marliss Desens's avatar

They did indeed raid a meat-packing plant in Omaha.

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Judy the Lazy Gardener's avatar

and the plant said they had e-verified all its employees! ICE is just raiding wherever they want with no evidence. Most if not all of them should be ashamed.

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Carl Van Ness's avatar

And this occurred after a Democrat, the first in decades, was inaugurated as mayor of Omaha.

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Rena's avatar

Huh. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

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Lynn's avatar

Isn’t Omaha blue?

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

Omaha voted blue didn’t it?

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

But migrants were hunted in the strawberry fields. Located in CA.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

Yes, I was aware of that. The beef, dairy, pork , chicken, & eggs tend to be heavily located in states that are pretty strongly red; which is why they don’t seem to have made the news very much.

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Rena's avatar

Au contraire, this is already happening... Farms and meat processing plants ...

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

Meat processing plants, where? Any others beside Omaha?

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Marliss Desens's avatar

For some reason, he appears to have exempted Texas and Florida, perhaps because they are solidly red states.

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Carl Van Ness's avatar

He's been totally transparent about it. He's only going after blue states and blue cities.

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Stefan Paskell's avatar

Exactly. It's a war. Trump's screed that Krugman posted says it all, filled with falsehood, the usual pretext for action.

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Chapas's avatar

Hi

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Stephen Brady's avatar

tRump could have an entire Mexican Drug Cartel in residence at Merde à Lardo and ICE wouldn't get within 10 miles of the place.

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

Well T-Rumposaurus purportedly has a special weapon that establishes a certain perimeter

One hears quiet talk of a certain unpleasant odour, which it seems *nobody* wants to be around.

(Apologies to those still having breakfast. This is rather less tasteful satire on my part.)

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Stephen Brady's avatar

When Jimmy Fallon asked Adam Kinzinger about it, Adam said it smells "like armpits and butt".

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

I think that Adam was just being polite about it :)

Melania has some clauses written into her nuptial agreement at this point I believe.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

Likely, she rubs Oil of Wintergreen under her nose whenever she is required to be near hm.

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

I do fear that we are descending into a less laudable realm of discourse now. Ah well, it's all part of our human condition I suppose :)

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Rena's avatar

I just read that Melania has spent 14 days at the White House since the Inauguration, which, if you're counting, was 147 days ago ...

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

She charges roughly 200, 000 an appearance, so they are limited to important events.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

Right, I think it’s pretty common knowledge that she can’t tolerate being around him, she only stays because of the money. I’ve heard that it’s in the renegotiated pre-nup that she gets paid an extra fee of at least $145K per public appearance with him.

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Chris's avatar

Course not. The whole point of anti-immigration politics is to ensure there's a large underclass of people with no rights or legal protections who can be easily exploited for labor by people like Trump.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

That "underclass" has been in the US for about 30 years or longer. Both parties, Dems and Reps, made money from big employers who needed the labor. There was and is even an "in-between underclass" of legal work-bound non-immigrants, always on the verge of self-deportation. No one ever cared about that.

What Trump does is possible thanks to existing legislation, which he applies cruelly. But there is nothing new under the sun. You are only now seeing it.

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Chris's avatar

... no, I've been seeing it my whole life, thank you very much. I was saying this before "President Trump" was anything but a bad Simpsons joke. All he did was kick it up a notch.

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Light Warder's avatar

The MAGAT bloodsport betting line to see who achieves the highest annual rate of deportations between PINO/TACO vs Obama 'The Deporter-in-Chief is real. But the matter of criminal vs noncriminal purges is moot. Donny's Team clearly wins the game because all illegal aliens are criminals as defined by Meister Miller Wormtongue. And that makes The Demented King real happy...until of course, as Dr. Krugman notes the costs of food, entertainment, housecleaning and construction triples before the next election.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

Prez Obama's deportations also hurt a number of innocent migrants.

Entering the country without proper documentation is a misdemeanor. Working without permission is a civil offense. Hiring people who do not have permission to work is a criminal offense. Ergo, the wrong people are punished (again).

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

Good that you saw it, but have you ever shared this view with your Representative in the House or your Senator?

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Rachelwtoo@gmail.com's avatar

We’ve known for ages that undocumented workers were hired to build his Manhattan towers and then went unpaid.

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Sandra P. Campbell's avatar

We'd never hear about it if it happened, I'm sure.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

That's a big if. You just know they have explicit instructions to leave Trumpkopf properties alone.

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

I was wondering the very same thing John.

But I think I can already guess the answer :)

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Patrick Daniels aka Cromulent1's avatar

It’s been reported that green cards have been issued to his undocumented workers, which might account for his attitude change on hotel and other service industries John.

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Tamie Swain's avatar

Did he pay for special “silver cards” for them - not as nice as the trump Gold immigration card, but lets you work for a pittance.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

These do not exist. Many migrants would go for this, or better, are already doing this, working for a pittance.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

Please give me a source for "Green Cards issued to undocumented workers". That seems highly unlikely. Work permits or EAD's could be possible.

Trump industries used(abused) non-immigrant permits for internships, like the J-1 and the H-2B visas to hire people cheaply. But they were not the only one using these options.

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bitchybitchybitchy's avatar

Yes, funny how Florida and the states where Trump has golf courses don't merit visits from ICE.

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Gerald  Carlino's avatar

Also to cities such as Houston, El Paso, or any red state locations?

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Rena's avatar

Yeah, no. I suggest you sit on your front porch and wait for that to happen. But while you're waiting, you might want to stock up on supplies for the long haul (like, say, for the rest of your life...). ..

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Susan Swan's avatar

They have hardly been doing any raids at all in red states, especially at big businesses like meat packing plants

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Diane's avatar

Nothing wrong with short, Paul, as long as it’s accurate. ✅

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

Well, I'm going to be sounding like a broken record now (remember those?) but I want to recognise @paulkrugman for giving us a daily dose of his succint commentary and wisdom, and for providing us the rather lively forum for discussion that I - for one, am having a great pleasure to participate in.

Paul had a remark about about the "sane-washing" that certain of the media appear to enjoy, when it relates to the rather non-sane and not at all normal literal words of his Highness.

Paul's commentary - in contrast, is simply and straightforwardly sane, and he is reminding us *not* to excuse, nor ever *normalise* Trump's askew-the-rails statements, ideas and behaviour.

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Preston Johnson's avatar

This was a nice

succinct article. 😊

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FfsBoise's avatar

Brevity is a virtue.

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Cissna, Ken's avatar

Nor with long. 😁

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Richard Bullington's avatar

When isn't it?

What exactly are you implying, O nameless Female sock puppet?

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Rahul and Divya Vangala's avatar

But this from United Farm Workers:

https://bsky.app/profile/ufw.bsky.social/post/3lrrpacey2k2a

"A “shift” never happened. A chaotic raid at a worksite and a warrantless sweep in our communities have the same outcome. Bullshit rhetoric aside, they’re hunting us down while we’re trying to feed you.

Who’s actually in charge?"

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Janis Lentz's avatar

Stephen Miller is running the White House! Trump NEVER intended to in good faith perform the duties of the presidency! And now, his dementia makes him unable to even think straight! “They’re eating their dogs! They’re eating their cats”! I rest my case! Amendment 25!

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

It's a nice idea, but 25 would give us "President Vance". Oops. What we need is to remove the entire malignancy - the whole misadministration - along with Jackass Johnson and Grassley.

The best bet is for a blue tsunami in 2026 that would make Jeffries the Speaker - and next in line to take over the Oval Office - followed by impeachment and, hopefully this time, extrication.

Edit: Oh yes, and at least the two senior most members of the SCOTUS "gang of six", if not all six.

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Cissna, Ken's avatar

Plus, DJT appointed all those cabinet officers—they’re loyal and Woukd never vote him out.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

All handpicked, straight from the Project 2025 crew.

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Stephen Brady's avatar

His dementia is worsening before out eyes! Did you see that pic of him at G-7? His hair (pelt) looked like it hadn't been washed in 10 days and his face looked like he went bobbing for apples in a bucket of burnt umber paint.

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George Patterson's avatar

He looked very bad when the Canadian President was speaking. Slouching a great deal. And he left a day early to "deal with the Iran/Israel war."

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John Gregory's avatar

people were speculating early in the first day of the G7 meeting that Trump would find an excuse to leave early, because he can't hide his dementia for any longer (and he'd fall asleep.) And ... he did!

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George Patterson's avatar

He looked even worse later. The Times has a video clip of him hunched over as he walks and dropping papers. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/17/world/europe/trump-starmer-trade-uk-g7-summit.html

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Stephen Brady's avatar

Maybe if we are lucky... (fingers crossed).

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bitchybitchybitchy's avatar

I think Heather Cox Richardson 's latest newsletter has a reference to reporters in DC who have noted that Trump infrequently appears in public, and that people are noticing how often he nods off when he does appear (callingthat ace reporter, Jake Tapper!).

If true it's possible that Stephen Miller IS running the WH..

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Marc R Hapke's avatar

I'm sure that he touches up Trump's shitposts on Truth Social. The syntax isn't totally chaotic as you would expect for full Trumpian.

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Barbara's avatar

I read recently that Trump has a staffer who posts for him on Truth Social. Not Miller, but an aide.

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Angie's avatar

Stephen Miller does not have the wheel at all times like he wants to, though. Good thing they aren't worried about all the hypocrisy, contradictions and backpedaling. He just has to override Trump's incoherent policy declarations by tweet when they're inconvenient.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

"Who’s actually in charge?"

The inmates of the asylum.

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

"Asylum"

Yes, that's a very apt choice of word for it Winston.

Sadly, there don't appear to be any professionals in the room capable of helping these forelorn souls.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

That's because they're beyond help.

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Chris's avatar

ICE is pretty much a rogue agency, no one has any control over them.

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Al Keim's avatar

Depends on the day of the week.

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Robert Davis's avatar

2/3 of Trump's wives were immigrants, confirming your point that immigrants take jobs that nobody else wants!

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Al Keim's avatar

Now that's funny!

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Robert Davis's avatar

I would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, sinners are much more fun (Billy Joel).

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Kat Hudy's avatar

🤣

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h.e.r.'s avatar

I have just one small caveat: Trump almost certainly did not write that post. It was written from his official account and it closes with his initials, but even at his most lucid he did not use such sentence structure.

Functionally I guess it doesn't make a lot of difference: one way or another, it's chaos and flailing from the White House. But it is concerning to think that Miller or someone like him may be overriding the president and have this level of ability to communicate in his name.

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

Indeed! One give-away characteristic that tends to confirm that is that the message is *not* in all CAPS, and it also contains many sentences: Gadzooks, even paragraphs :)

This does not seem at all to be a manifestation of Mr. Trump’s trademark communication.

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h.e.r.'s avatar

Yep, the lack of huge swaths in all-caps was the first giveaway. Also, the grammar is decent aside from the initial caps on nearly every noun.

I'm looking at a few of the adjectives and descriptive nouns (Democrat power center? WTAF) along with the excessively biting, grandiose, self-righteous tone. My money is on Miller as ghost writer. He's smart enough to compose such a screed, and displays the utter lack of self-awareness required to realize how little that shit sounds like something Trump would write.

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

And yes. If we're trying to identify the Goebbels in this landscape, Miller seems the obvious pick.

Talk about the hard cases in the asylum. Yikes!

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Edmund Clingan's avatar

Goebbels was the propagandist, Himmler handled "deportations."

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

Yikes!

And of course cosmetic surgery was not really available in that era,

so he wasn't able to doll himself up for his pictures in the media :)

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

Possibly a little Steven Cheung in the mix?

You've got to feel a little sorry for that poor wraith. Talk about a living Hell!

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h.e.r.'s avatar

Though I have zero pity for any of those ass hats

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

Pity is definitely a reach for people who are making such apparently conscious choices.

I can certainly go with 'lament' and sadly I do have to admit 'disdain.'

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h.e.r.'s avatar

Good call

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La's avatar

Heather Cox Richardson’s latest piece regarding the White House’s abrupt policy about-face on this: “This shift makes it seem as if White House deputy chief of staff Stephen Miller, a white nationalist who insists that the U.S. must deport a million immigrants this year, is determining White House policies…”

You bet this policy shift and that vile post both have Miller’s bloody fingerprints all over them.

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EmiM's avatar

Thank you. Here is some help: Priests Standing Up at immigrant court cases- they will be harder pressed to be unjustly cruel:

The CATHOLIC CHURCH STANDS UP AGAINST TRUMP— The first U.S. bishop appointed by Pope Leo XIV has called for priests, deacons and parish leaders to accompany migrants to court and stand in solidarity with them.

Rev. Michael Pham, who was named bishop of San Diego, California, by Pope Leo in May, wrote a letter about the action on Wednesday, along with Rev. Felipe Pulido and Rev. Ramón Bejarano, both appointed by the previous pontiff, Pope Francis.

https://www.newsweek.com/pope-leos-first-us-bishop-against-trump-ice-migrant-crackdown-2084985

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

Leo has only been Pope for a little over a month now, and I like him already. And I'm not even Catholic, or Christian for that matter.

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Janis Lentz's avatar

Thank you, Pope Leo!

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EmiM's avatar
2dEdited

Pope Leo, Hand picked by Pope Francis—Born and raised in America, he is proving his roots are strong—Standing Up for the weak, taking on the Unjust.

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matclone's avatar

Just like the Bible says--not like what Trump says.

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Al Keim's avatar

That's leading by example. What a fine day it is:-)

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George Patterson's avatar

ICE simply won't take them to court.

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EmiM's avatar
2dEdited

That won’t work any more, George. Why? Because as the Immigrants get word that they have a lifeline in the Catholic Community..Worldwide condemnation spreads quickly.. and they will run to the church to report their friend loved ones were refused due process. It is a powerful tool put into their hands.

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Frau Katze's avatar

But what do MAGA Catholics think? They exist, I’ve encountered them.

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EmiM's avatar

Ah, a Good question. Might I hope it gives them pause to consider… and perhaps if they attend their chosen church regularly, they may now hear sermons that speak of the reason behind the new Pope Leo’s actions…”For I was hungry, and you fed me. For I was homeless and you sheltered me. For I was without clothes, and you clothed me.” Hearts can open, if they are truly followers of Christ…What say you?

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Newcavendish's avatar

But there has already been a suggestion that, as he is still an American Citizen (despite being now a sovereign monarch in his own right), he owes US taxes and could be taken to court for not declaring all of the Vatican's income as his. It's not going to happen, but it makes a nice contra-conspriacy theory.

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George Patterson's avatar

Good luck extraditing him from Vatican City.

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Richard House's avatar

Perhaps the heralded male followers of Trump who have time to listen to Joe Rogaine three hours a day can replace them on the farms and cleaning offices in the cities…the rest of the incels can join the Army and invade Greenland and Canada.

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Richard House's avatar

Thank you

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Paul Vlachos's avatar

He's a lying, treasonous grifter who truly hates America and is trying to destroy it and line his own pockets along the way. He also appears to be in serious cognitive decline, so his terrible people are now running the show. This is not America. Most Americans are not so consumed by hatred, nor do they want to destroy our institutions or be ruled by a king. The GOP has enabled and allowed this and they must be held to account one day, as well as the leaders and the followers who are going to claim they are just following orders.

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Ron Masters's avatar

About 16% of American jobs are held by foreign-born workers, and unemployment is about 4%. There simply are not enough native-born workers to fill all the jobs America creates.

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George Patterson's avatar

Oh, didn't you know? They're all sitting at home drawing checks from Medicaid.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

Tell that to the Dems, who called my H-1B husband a "job stealer" and told me I could not work here as that would mean another job lost for a US worker. I really wished economists would get their stories straight. I also wished you told us what you want before we immigrate, not afterwards.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

There are - just not below a living wage.

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LM's avatar

There aren’t enough native born, able bodied workers to replace “illegal” immigrants working here. There just aren’t. At any wage.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

I don't believe that.

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LM's avatar

What you believe is irrelevant. What the facts say is.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

Show me the evidence.

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LM's avatar

You can read about Giovanni Peri’s research on how native born workers’ wages in southern Florida went up in the aftermath of the Mariel boat lift. Or any number of studies showing that immigrant labor makes the overall economy grow faster (producing more or higher paying jobs for native born Americans) than it would due to our aging native born workforce. Or just reread the original comment you replied to.

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Terry Mc Kenna's avatar

I sing in a church choir that is mostly MAGA and so was not surprised to hear one of the sopranos say something like... but he is going after criminals.

These people live in a news desert of their own choosing. Sadly they see Democrats as utter failures when in office despite all evidence to the contrary.

MAGA are in essence programmed to hate the other - the "libs" who they believe have destroyed America. The soprano about is solidly middle class - a retired nurse with a retired husband. They live is a beautiful home.... so are far from experiencing ruin.

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bruce klassen's avatar

I hope you confronted him:her right then and there. Bringing ignorance out into the light.

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Terry Mc Kenna's avatar

Sorry but I said a little more but it is hopeless. And a choir, especially a small choir, must work to keep harmony. I have sung in this choir for 23 years and this woman has been in it for at least 18 years. And really - I would become an arrogant ass to rebuild her completely wrong world view.

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Ed S's avatar

find anothehr church because you just make it ok to be maga if you stay.....

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matclone's avatar

It's not always realistic, or even human, Ed, to reject the people you know because they've adopted MAGA views. There are a lot of good people who are bamboozled by a steady diet of bullshit from Fox News and the like. You pick and choose your moments or you risk losing friends or family.

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Teri C's avatar

I consider even non maga republicans as complicit when they don’t take a stand against it. Really, it’s their monster; it’s really on them to act against the craziness and cruelty. I do to wonder if the real risk is keeping in contact with maga people. You have to consider that they may be far more radicalized than what they show in public. The Minnesota murder’s roommate seems to have been clueless about how dangerous he was.

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Ed S's avatar

THEY reject you and al you stand for yet you still allow the into your life? THAT is a tad sick....

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Terry Mc Kenna's avatar

Sorry but I only go to sing in the choir. The choir director is great. I am not a believer and don’t go except to choir rehearsal and performance. But in churches now - in suburban America - even NJ, MAGA is all over. One man I have sung with since 2001 is a conspiracy cook. (Did not know this for years);

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Charles Bryan's avatar

One person in my Sunday School class confided to me that the reason ehg prices were so high is that Biden had ordered all the chi kens be killed. What is weird is that he is the ni est guy in person and volunteers at our church's food pantry.

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Terry Mc Kenna's avatar

And worse still there is some truth to it - that is the chickens that were infected were killed. But this is protocol not biden’s policy. The woman is my age and we both grew up in NJ in industrial suburbs. She is a sweet person but.... clearly clueless. And the man who is a conspiracy nut has been a good husband and father, stable worker. Great singer to sing with.. It is terribly say.

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Newcavendish's avatar

Not so, my Episcopal church, with an excellent semi-professional choir, is as traditionally liberal and anti-MAGA as anyone could want.

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Terry Mc Kenna's avatar

Well I meant Catholic curches. Full of anti abortiin etc

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Pandora’s Box's avatar

I realized the same thing. Seemingly ‘normal’ people have condensed this thorny issue to ‘getting rid of bad immigrants’ and nothing will dissuade them. And the incalculable damage being done in a larger scale. It literally does not exist for them.

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Frau Katze's avatar

There’s not much you can do with hardcore MAGAs.

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bruce klassen's avatar

Call them out to make them public and commit openly to their hateful beliefs.

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Frau Katze's avatar

I wouldn’t do it in a social setting like a choir.

It wouldn’t do any good anyway. MAGA will only change if they suffer due to Trump—like getting cut off Medicaid.

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Michelle's avatar

As uncomfortable as it will be to do, at some point you are going to have to chose- speak up or allow the maga brainwashing to go unchecked. By going along you are helping it remain in place whether you like it or not. Your voice is needed not just for your choir….

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Terry Mc Kenna's avatar

Sorry but I am old, tired and caring for a bed ridden wife. I have enough on my plate. I need an outlet. Maybe after my wife dies.

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Sharon's avatar

Keep your choir and friends. I find that there are occasions when a little sanity can be slipped in. Confrontation won’t work. Sometimes you can slip on a “that isn’t my experience. I know someone….”

The teachings of Jesus are a good antidote to the hate.

Unless you watch the propaganda you aren’t at risk fo believing the lies.

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bruce klassen's avatar

So sad Terry, many of us are feeling alone and overwhelmed these days. You can get help for your trauma and your toil of love. Here are some contacts: Older adults in the U.S. experiencing mental trauma due to political stress, societal changes, or the emotional burden of caring for ill spouses have access to several organizations and support systems. These resources offer mental health support, counseling, peer groups, and specialized trauma-informed care.

National and Community Organizations

1. National Coalition on Mental Health and Aging (NCMHA)

• Focus: Advocacy, resources, and support for older adults with mental health needs.

• Services: Information on diagnosis, treatment, and caregiver support; advocacy for improved access to behavioral health services for older adults; resources addressing the unique challenges faced by seniors, including those related to political and societal stressors.

• Website: NCMHA Resources

2. Administration for Community Living (ACL)

• Focus: National network of agencies supporting older adults and people with disabilities.

• Services: Aging and Disability Resource Centers, Area Agencies on Aging, senior centers, and caregiver support programs. These organizations provide counseling, support groups, and respite care for caregivers, addressing both emotional and practical needs.

• Website: ACL Aging and Disability Networks

3. Jewish Federations of North America – Center on Holocaust Survivor Care and Institute on Aging and Trauma

• Focus: Trauma-informed care for older adults, especially those with a history of trauma.

• Services: Person-centered, trauma-informed (PCTI) care for Holocaust survivors and expansion of this model to other older adults with trauma histories, including support for family caregivers.

Mental Health and Caregiver Support

4. Caregiver Support Groups and Mental Health Services

• Focus: Emotional and psychological support for caregivers, including those caring for ill spouses.

• Services: Counseling, therapy, peer support groups, and respite care. These services help caregivers manage stress, reduce isolation, and develop coping strategies for both personal and political distress.

• Examples: Local Area Agencies on Aging, caregiver resource centers, and organizations like the Family Caregiver Alliance.

5. NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness)

• Focus: Peer support and mental health resources for those experiencing stress, including political and societal distress.

• Services: Free support groups, peer warmlines, and recovery learning communities. NAMI also offers post-election and political distress support resources.

Coping with Political and Societal Stress

• Professional Guidance: Therapists and counselors are increasingly addressing political distress as a clinical issue, offering strategies to set boundaries, manage anxiety, and process emotions related to political events.

• Community Support: Organizations and mental health professionals recommend joining support groups, engaging in community activities, and seeking counseling to help process political and societal changes.

How to Access Help

• Find Local Resources: Contact your local Area Agency on Aging or use the ACL’s Aging and Disability Resource Centers to locate services in your area.

• Join Support Groups: Many organizations offer both in-person and online support groups for caregivers and older adults experiencing mental health challenges.

• Seek Trauma-Informed Care: Look for organizations or providers trained in person-centered, trauma-informed care, especially if you or your loved one has a history of trauma.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

It's a nice idea, but would be an exercise in futility. These MAGAnuts are beyond reason and beyond reach.

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

Yes. It's probably best to maintain a safe distance from persons who are setting themselves on fire.

Some of these folks do seem quite determined 'flamers.'

Sorry: I'm allowing myself to be drawn in :)

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bruce klassen's avatar

Good advice Doc. but this is no longer something that can be ignored. Absolutely take precautions and distance yourself, but at a very minimum, call outs and stands for our innate rights are required now. That said, your call for caution is much appreciated. As we have seen, they will use force and pick up the gun. Gandhi stressed that peaceful resistance is an act of bravery and self-respect, not weakness. He called for people to face oppression without resorting to violence, even if it meant imprisonment or death. We already have examples.

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Al Keim's avatar

Amen

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Eric's avatar

This is one of the bedrock stances of MAGA - that the country is filled with criminals and terrible people who are out to get them, specifically. It's a combination of egotism and fear: they really think they're so visible and important that other people notice them, and that they're targets because of it.

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Joseph David Marsden's avatar

"But this means sending people who may well be innocent — and legal residents — to horrifying gulags."

Back when the Constitution still mattered, we had this thing called the Eighth Amendment, which held (among other things) that "cruel and unusual punishments" shall not be inflicted.

Seems like deporting immigrants whose only "crime" has been a technical violation of their immigration status (which is really a "violation," like a routine traffic ticket) would qualify as a cruel and unusual punishment.

Particularly when they are deported to a foreign gulag.

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Lesley's avatar

Are we still sending people to gulags? I’m not sure what is meant when articles report that we are “deporting” people. Where are we sending them?

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Joseph David Marsden's avatar

South Sudan for some of them.

I don't think that destination was based on any of the deportees actually being from South Sudan.

https://apnews.com/article/deportation-immigration-south-sudan-department-of-homeland-security-a09612dbd055c5d1d88902c415bdf3e6

That article is a few weeks old; hopefully the several court orders against the deportations have returned the process to sanity.

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Keith Wheelock's avatar

Joseph I read several days ago that these deportees being sent to the South Sudan, as well as their federal guards, are being held up in Djibouti in unpleasant circumstances.

South Sudan is no ‘garden spot.’ I was there in 1954 while making a documentary SUDAN: LAND OF CONTRASTS. It’s been a troubled spot since February, 1955. The discovery of oil has enhanced its economic traction.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

South Sudan seceded from Sudan in 2011.

The travel advisory that the US Department of State recently gave for this country: "Updated to reflect ordered departure of non-emergency U.S. government personnel due to continued security threats in South Sudan."

"Do not travel to South Sudan due to crime, kidnapping, and armed conflict."

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Lesley's avatar

Thanks so much for clarifying for me. Much appreciated.

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Frau Katze's avatar

I’ve haven’t read about any more shipments to the El Salvador prison.

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Eric Root's avatar

The Trump Administration has sent some immigrants who are entirely innocent to notorious foreign prisons from which the only exit is in a coffin.

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Lesley's avatar

Yes, he absolutely has done this and we need to rescue them.

I’m wondering where he is sending these latest immigrants rounded up in L.A. and elsewhere. I haven’t read any details of where they are and I’m worried he may be deporting to El Salvador or even Sudan under the radar…

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Frau Katze's avatar

Let’s hope they’re being deported to their homelands.

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Eric Root's avatar

For some of the asylum seekers, that’s a death sentence.

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Michiel Nijk's avatar

Apart from the misery and economic havoc Caving Don and his cronies will inflict - I'm curious which faction is going to win this fight.

My guess is - caving Don will do a weekly flip flop. Hey people, it's flip flop week again!

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

An autopsy of Trumpkopf will find no brain. An autopsy of his henchman Miller will find no heart. King Scarecrow and his Tinman. That would leave Rubio as the Cowardly Lion, Bondi as the Wicked Witch of the East and Noem as Wicked Witch of the West.

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Al Keim's avatar

Does a big white house fall on them?

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

We can only hope.

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Teri C's avatar

Republican congress-flying monkeys

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David J. Brown Ph.D. (cantab.)'s avatar

Your remark reminds me of that scene in 'Young Frankenstein' when Eyegor (Marty Feldman's character) comes back with the wrong brain.

After breaking the glass with the genius's brain in it, he grabs the next one along on the shelf.

Gene Wilder's character (Dr. Frankenstein) then asks him:

"Well whose brain is *this* then?"

Eyegor:

"Abby something. Oh: Abby Normal."

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

That was classic.

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Keith Wheelock's avatar

Winston As a 12 year old I had the privilege of spending 30 minutes alone with Frank Morgan 9Wizard of Oz). A delightful individual who would never given Trump a brain, Miller a. Heart, or Rubio courage.

As for Bondi, the house would have crushed her MAGA gown while Toto’s pee would wash away Noem.

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Thomas's avatar

The surprising thing is that MAGA has spared Silicon Valley’s habit of bringing in immigrants for prestige jobs, immigrant doctors, etc. That’s entirely *legal* immigration but it’s interesting after Vivek Ramaswamy insulted Americans’ job skills and work ethic, they let the matter drop. Shows you how much influence Musk and friends still have.

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

It's all about prostituting the job market - and 'holding the line on "upward salary pressures"'.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

It is not that easy anymore to bring an H-1B worker in. For several years already USCIS holds a lottery for under-the-cap permits, because of the high demand. There is a 1-in-3 chance the petition for a worker will be processed. Only 85,000 H-1B's are available under the cap. These are mainly filled by males (about 80-90%), mostly from India. (Jobs at colleges, universities, etc. are outside of the cap.)

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Frau Katze's avatar

Many are angry about it, but there’s not much they can do.

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Thomas Patrick McGrane's avatar

Trump comes from Cop Fed Television. So who rigs elections Don?

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Janis Lentz's avatar

Trump and his crooked cronies rig elections! Starting with Jeb Bush STOPPING the counting of votes in Florida in 2000 to illegally hand the presidency to his doofus brother! And it has continued for 25 years of Republican election fraud!

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WinstonSmithLondonOceania's avatar

Hell, even Tricky Dickie's election was fraudulent. So was St. Reagan's. Let's not forget the deal his campaign cut with Ayatollah Khomeini to hold the hostages until inauguration day.

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BTAM Master's avatar

In 2011, Alabama cracked down on migrant workers...and the tomatoes rotted in the fields and the farmers lost their shirts. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/14/alabama-immigration-law-workers

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Lee Peters's avatar

I wish Paul Krugman would interview an agricultural economist next. Estimates of the impact on the food supply and on the ability of farmers to stay in business with so many shocks (I.e. tariff induced losses of export markets, labor suppl reductions,,SNAP benefit limitations) is critical information to have.

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Maribel Maldonado's avatar

PK thank you. Dismantling the myth of the criminal immigrant is one of my passions. Specifying the huge contributions immigrants make continues to be essential. Trump/Maga have succeeded in brainwashing the entire country with falsehoods and negative spin about immigrants. We need to change the narrative and get creative about path-to-citizenship solutions.

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MamaBear's avatar

You cannot be law-abiding when you are present in the U.S. without a valid visa or other status, working without permission to work and then without paying taxes. Illegal aliens are law-breakers and should not be rewarded with citizenship or permanent residency for breaking numerous laws for years on end.

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antoinette.uiterdijk's avatar

What dismantling? Family-based immigrants are welcome, work-based immigrants are not. The US does not want more immigration. And that is OK. The issue is that this country is not honest about it. Keeps talking about our "essential contributions". Any idea how many legal non-immigrants I have seen that had to self-deport?

Congress had 30 years to reform a broken immigration system. But nothing happened after the "anti-immigrant" legislation of 1996. That is an important source of the current misery. Without it Prez Trump c.s. could not do what they are currently is doing in such a cruel way.

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