497 Comments
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Kathy Hughes's avatar

Trump is about to bring on Great Depression 2.0 with the tariff disasters, tax cuts and the inevitable crash of unregulated cryptocurrency. They hope to leave us desperate as they take everything they can. The mainstream media is dishonest by not calling out Trump’s lies or his mental decay.

Diane Bagues's avatar

WaPo tracked T at around 30k lies his first term.

He was on a pace to at least match that in his second term, but Bezos apparently put a stop to the tracking after T’s first month.

Guess that brings us back to that quote about someone: How do you know if X is lying?

A: Are his lips moving?

Kathy Hughes's avatar

There is one thing Trump doesn’t lie about, and it’s the bad things he wants to do.

Rena Stone's avatar

That, and the fact that smart people don't like him.

Michael Hutchinson's avatar

Speaking of smart, let's complete Krugman's Orwellian quote, and apply it directly to Trump's MAGA voters: "Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."

Kathy Hughes's avatar

Orwell’s statement is true where MAGA is concerned.

Michael Brooke's avatar

Out of curiosity, because I cancelled my WaPo subscription just over a year ago for the same reason that hundreds of thousands of others did, are they still tracking Trump's lies, or has Jeff Bezos decided that that's not good for business?

Rainer Dynszis's avatar

Glenn Kessler wrote his last article on July 31, therein stating:

"I am taking a voluntary buyout, ending almost 28 years at the newspaper, including more than 14 as The Fact Checker."

So yes, apparently Jeff Bezos has decided that that's not good for business.

Frau Katze's avatar

Kessler has started a Substack (not free however).

Nevoustrumpezpas's avatar

A portion of it is free, though, as I found out just now. Some people might find that useful.

Frau Katze's avatar

I think there is some free stuff.

Diane Bagues's avatar

Thanks for info. I got a feel for him from seeing him on MSNBC, and will subscribe to his personal Substack one later today.

Diane Bagues's avatar

Bezos stopped the tracking about a month in to this term. It was running at least the same, if not worse, this time ‘round.

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

How do we know when Trumpkopf is lying? When he's breathing.

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Nov 12
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Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

That works for me. I was thinking "Trump" + "dummkopf". They just go together so naturally.

Derelict's avatar

Trump and the oligarchs will reign o'er the wreckage of America, having snatched up everything they can grab and being utterly bewildered why the starving masses hate them.

Nobody from nowhere's avatar

Marie Antoinette is alleged to have said, "Let them eat cake." A leader of the Paris Commune alleged that Rousseau said, "When they (the people) have nothing left to eat, they will eat the rich." It is not something I hope, but something I fear if conditions become truly dire in our country and the administration doesn't care about the inflicted pain.

Derelict's avatar

American culture has always had a very strong underpinning of "whatever happens to you is YOUR fault." And now that we have some of the major religious movements telling their followers that empathy is evil, you can look forward to even more blaming of the victims . . . until EVERYONE is a victim.

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Last Tuesday showed the tide is turning. That was the first ripple in the coming Big Beautiful Blue Tsunami 2026!

Nobody from nowhere's avatar

Be careful, Derelict, you're treading pretty close to my master thesis here. ;-) Focused on Germany, but same kind of issue - if you're poor it's because of a moral or personal flaw. But that was in the 19th century, and I thought when researching my thesis, how quaint. Little did I know. :-(

fa's avatar
Nov 15Edited

Maybe the depressing comparison of then and now can be your doctoral thesis 😭😂😭

Nobody from nowhere's avatar

That ship sailed long ago LOL (MA awarded in 1979!). Perhaps, if only I'd known then what I know now! For example, the idea of asking that more be done privately, less with government spending - the 19th century would tell you, been there, tried that, didn't work.

John Schmacker's avatar

Marie Antoinette's full alleged quote was "They can't afford bread? Well then let them eat cake". This does more to show her in-their-faces contempt for the poor.

Rainer Dynszis's avatar

"This does more to show her in-their-faces contempt for the poor."

I believe one should be careful to stay on the right side of history, and not repeat legends just because they fit into one's own preconceived notions.

Even if your heart is in the right place, you're doing your own position a disservice if you're caught asserting things that are simply not true.

Case in point: Historical records show that Marie Antoinette's attitude towards the poor was anything BUT contemptuous, and the alleged quote was simply a libellous fabrication.

It was not even inventive, as variants of this story have circulated at least since the 3rd century CE. Back then it was "No rice? Why don't they eat meat?"

gigi's avatar

I think MA had no attitude towards the poor as they were far remote - until they came to move the royals from Versailles to Paris to keep an eye on them. She ́d seen far more ostriches than poor people in her preserved life. She had to BUILD a hamlet to bring some poverty nearer.

But she wasn’t nasty as US oligarchs. It was poor education of the time. Today, it’s pure evil and greed. (and the brioche part is fake news, comes from a Rousseau work before she was born/married Louie can’t remember which but BEFORE.

Kathy Hughes's avatar

Louis was born in 1754, Marie Antoinette was born in 1755. She came to France in 1770 and became queen in 1774.

NubbyShober's avatar

"I don't care. Do you?" --Melania Trump.

Kathy Hughes's avatar

She didn’t say that, it was a statement originally attributed to an unknown princess long before Marie Antoinette left Austria for France. Marie Antoinette could be a very personally kind person, but she didn’t see the connection between her personal expenses and the economic hardships France was undergoing during her husband’s reign. Louis XVI was determined to keep his wife out of politics as he had seen how his grandfather Louis XV had let his mistress Jeanne du Barry manipulate politics. The time when Marie Antoinette became most influential was just before the Revolution. Marie Antoinette’s problem is that she was oblivious to the bigger picture and to the need for tax reform. Louis XV was unpopular with the nobility by the time he died of smallpox as he wantrf tax reform, while Louis XVI didn’t see the need for it. That was one start if the problem, and while court expenses were high, France incurred significant expenses with its aid to the American colonists in their war for independence from Britain,

From the American perspective, it was easy to blame George III for signing the bills ordering colonists to pay their share of taxes for Britain’s nascent empire without parliamentary representation, but the politicians who enacted the legislation were equally to blame. George III merely gave his royal assent to what Parliament had already decided.

Gordon Reynolds's avatar

Well, she lost her head. Someone else noted that she only ‘allegedly’ said this, and felt more sympathetic towards the poor. If that’s true, then she was a better man than Trump ever imagined himself to be.

Linda McCaughey's avatar

"EAT THE RICH" was one of my favorite hippie bumper stickers!! We need to bring it back!

Rex Page (Left Coast)'s avatar

Yes, it makes a great bumper sticker. Not appetizing, though. The best use for Republicans might be as canned pet food. Would “Can the rich” be too subtle?

George Patterson's avatar

Run that through your favorite search engine. There are several on the market.

Tom Passin's avatar

This sounds so exactly like how a hostile takeover of a business works. Buy it using in part funds gotten by forcing the company to take on debt. Then strip and sell off its best assets one by one. Each sale benefits the new owners and runs the company down more. Eventually when all the best assets are gone, the company goes into bankruptcy and the remaining assets are sold for pennies on the dollar. A perfectly good business ends up ruined, its assets gone, the ordinary shareholders left with nothing, and its workers out of work.

Linda McCaughey's avatar

That's what Romney did for a living, remember?

Marc R Hapke's avatar

You just perfectly described capitalism as it is practiced in the USA. Certainly not what Smith had in mind.

Mary Schweitzer's avatar

Smith wrote in “Wealth of Nations” that you had to watch merchants (businessmen) like a hawk or they’ll cheat. The free market he described was meant to end mercantilism (which is the closest economic theory to what Trump seems to believe) and replace it with free trade between nations, allowing each to specialize in what they do best.

The free market as an on-the-ground description of the economy requires a lot of assumptions - no power imbalances, no differences in wealth, and the free and perfect flow of information.

It’s not bad for a first pass at trends, but it certainly doesn’t work in the long run. Particularly when there are so many huge corporations dominating markets. Economists wasted a lot of time trying to find ways management would behave like owners, but these days, they don’t. When I was last in a grad micro course, they spent the entire semester “proving” a tautology - the “dual” - that is, managers may not maximize profit but they do minimize costs. Horse hockey.

The interesting part (for me) of economics are the various micro specialties that take away one or more of the assumptions then (again, from my perspective) come up with ideas about how an imperfect market shapes behavior. As you suggested, takeovers can sell off the capital and destroy the company rather than lower costs while continuing to produce.

Most transactions in the US aren’t market transactions, because they happen WITHIN corporations. We’re the only ones stuck with so-called natural rules that requires us to operate through this very un-natural market.

Medicine is a perfect example. For the consumer, we are talking about life and death, which doesn’t exactly put us in a good bargaining position!

Porlock's avatar

But of course the Invisible Hand of the Market, blessed be its name, prevents that from happening in real life. I think.

And those of you who credit that

Can sit down on an opera hat

And never crush the darn thing flat

--Archy

Kathy Hughes's avatar

That is what I think they plan to do.

Jenn Borgesen's avatar

But whose pockets will they pick when ours are empty? That's when the dogs will have to turn on each other or seek out new nations to pillage.

Kathy Hughes's avatar

Probably, it’s not the first time it’s happened in history.

Acela's avatar

Do you think they'll call them 'Trumptowns'?

"'Hoovervilles' were shantytowns built by homeless people during the Great Depression, named sarcastically after Republican President Herbert Hoover (1929–1933). These camps consisted of makeshift shelters constructed from scrap materials like wood, cardboard, and metal, and they sprang up across the United States to house those displaced by the economic collapse."

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Yes, and Theiltowns, Andreessenvilles, Mu卐kRattowns, etc.

George Patterson's avatar

I doubt it. DonnyJon has been talking about making homelessness illegal. What that will produce will be much more like Auschwitz than a Hooverville.

Meighan Corbett's avatar

Venezuela up next! Cause Hegseth wants a war!

NubbyShober's avatar

A war with Venezuela would provide excellent distraction from Jeffrey Epstein! Y'know, that serial pedophile who used to hold all those teenybopper parties for Donald?

Anthony Beavers's avatar

Not only bewildered, but angry and resentful. They'll say "We rich are the ones who create all the jobs, aren't we? You are all ungrateful wretches for not acknowledging this! You’re lack of appreciation and unwillingness to adore us makes us all very sad."

Self-awareness is apparently not a requirement when obtaining great wealth.

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Divide and conquer, plunder and pillage.

LiverpoolFCfan's avatar

Time to copy and paste these facts to some of the comment sections of WaPo, just to remind readers that the truth is out there, beyond the supplicant mainstream corporate media.

Facts are facts, and emotions don't change facts.

I am reminded of a sticker I saw on a MAGA truck last year: "F--k your feelings". Yes, the irony was obvious even then.

pkidd's avatar

Factor in the fall of overvalued AI.

Ma Watkins's avatar

I’m worried about all the power usage

Jon Herrin's avatar

You forgot to add the AI tech bubble and whatever the next pandemic as triggers for the next Great Depression.

Kathy Hughes's avatar

You’re correct, and thank you for reminding me of these.

Marge Wherley's avatar

And I’m afraid he’ll choose the maximum distraction: war with Venezuela?

Bill Donahue's avatar

Add the spike in health care costs and food that is just starting to hit Americans, and especially his deluded MAGA base in Republican states. Soon we'll get to see if he can continue to convince them to irnore their "lying eyes".

And it isn't the mainstream media that's dishonest by not calling out his lies and mental decay. That's been pointed out everywhere but the far-right media, starting with Fox News. And yes, they are absolutely far-right. Unfortunately, half of Americans only get their news from Fox and others even worse than them.

Linda McCaughey's avatar

Any thinking person with a rational concept of reality has no need for "mainstream media" or any other media to tell them what truth is.

DrBDH's avatar

Also, when the Musk cult wakes up, sells and Tesla goes bankrupt.

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Boycott TE卐LA! Boycott Swastikar!

Short TE卐LA! Short Swastikar!

Louise Purfield-Coak's avatar

My British cousin has been telling for months now, that all of Europe is boycotting Tesla. Sales have fallen dramatically, and those that own one are afraid to drive it on the public roads of England. It seems people don't throw sandwiches at them but rocks and bricks.

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Awesome. I saw a cybertruck a few weeks ago that had a big Toyota logo on the back. I had to do a double take. It was hilarious.

Hicks, Alexander's avatar

This morning PK decries the evil of demagogic lies. Great Depression 2.0? PK might also have counseled caution Re the kind of demagogic cheerleading low on, if not devoid of, factual grounding that fills political-economic blogs of every persuasion and that Kathy Hughes dramatically exemplifies today.

George Patterson's avatar

Fox is the mainstream media.

Kathy Hughes's avatar

It sure as as far as Trump worshippers are concerned.

BobTimpson's avatar

MAGA is told the economy is great, and they believe it. Fox has interviewed people saying things are bad for themselves, but since the whole country is doing well it must be true and they would still vote for Trump again.

Untrickled by Michelle Teheux's avatar

Imagine what things could be like right now if we had a sane, competent president actually interested in making things better.

Theodora30's avatar

No need to imagine it, we’ve lived through that. You may not have agreed with all of their decisions but Clinton, Obama and Biden all had sane policies and all presided over a a healthy economy. Clinton had millions of people moving out of poverty- the most in over thirty years. After getting us out of the disaster caused by the mortgage meltdown crisis Obama got us the ACA. Biden brought the US out of the covid shutdown with unavoidable inflation that was comparable to other nations’ but with a far more robust economy. I’m so old I even have clear memories of the sane, competent Eisenhower administration.

Robert Duane Shelton's avatar

I can beat that. I have memories of the fourth Roosevelt Administration. Which not only pulled the US out of the Great (Republican) Depression, but also defeated the Nazis besides.

Fred Krasner's avatar

I believe that most economic historians would agree that we really didn't come out of the Depression until WWII began requiring the entire country to be engaged in the building of planes, ships, tanks, artillery, jeeps, trucks, and other armaments.

Diane Bagues's avatar

Mý understanding as well

Theodora30's avatar

That’s incredible! I hope your memories are good ones.

What I recall most vividly about Eisenhower is my dad’s disgust when his doctors were briefing the press after his heart attack and they reported his bowel movements were normal. Apparently Ike had told them to be completely open — the opposite of Trump’s doctors. My brother and I thought that was hilarious.

Untrickled by Michelle Teheux's avatar

Of course I didn’t agree with “all” their decisions — hell, I don’t agree with all MY decisions! They were all sane people making pretty good decisions, though.

Even the Bushes, whose decisions I mostly did not agree with, were generally trying to accomplish positive things.

This regime is the only one I’ve lived under that is openly seeking to plunder and destroy.

Rena Stone's avatar

Let's not go overboard. I don't think lying the country into needless wars, committing war crimes (torture) and cutting taxes for the rich were actions taken while "trying to accomplish positive things."

Untrickled by Michelle Teheux's avatar

I didn’t like or respect them but I think they genuinely thought they were making good decisions. Trump is only motivated by his own wellbeing. He doesn’t remotely care about this country or humanity.

Diane Bagues's avatar

I got to thinking about this in the last week or two and had come to a similar conclusion: Every previous president was at least trying to do what he thought was best for the country. In my opinion, Trump is the only president in our history who seems to care first and foremost for himself - and especially about HIS money and wealth.

Louise Purfield-Coak's avatar

He said in an interview once that he didn't like people! Wow, he sure confirmed that when he took away food to force a vote to take away healthcare.

Barb O's avatar

Don't feel bad. Mark Twain said (more or less) that when two people in the same room agree about everything, one of them isn't thinking.

Kats in the Cradle's avatar

Bill Clinton once said, "When people think, they vote Democrat."

Edwin Callahan's avatar

Additionally, both are lying, to themselves as well as each other.

Myra Ferree's avatar

At Least their plunder-and-destroy impulses were directed at other countries. Bad, but worse when self inflicted destruction. Though T doesn’t actually think of anyone besides himself and his progeny as “self.”

It's a Grand Journey's avatar

She would have done so much better.

BTAM Master's avatar

Such as perhaps Kamala Harris?

Diane Bagues's avatar

She’d have done way more than fine, I think. I sometimes ponder how things now could have been different were she the president now.

Untrickled by Michelle Teheux's avatar

Oh my God. I wouldn’t be terrified that my 100 percent legal permanent resident husband might be deported for no reason, for one. I’d sleep better.

And of course I could list literally hundreds of things that would be better for the country and world.

andré's avatar

Kamila was the only comptetant candidate

Joanna Weinberger's avatar

The second Democratic term was being set up for any Democratic leader to continue the Biden economic momentum.

The effort to get ready for Democratic majorities after the midterms is starting after Thanksgiving, when we should all be talking turkey.

Derelict's avatar

Or just a sane competent president how left things alone!

JC Andrijeski | Jules D'Or's avatar

We had that. But our nation is filled with angry, entitled morons who decided they liked spectacle and the empty promises of a felon and long-proven liar/carnival-barker instead, partly because he promised to punish all those uppity women and POC for them.

Gordon Reynolds's avatar

I actually find myself musing, incredibly: imagine if instead of working so hard to destroy the country Trump had worked as hard to make it a better place. No one can deny his ability to cow congress into submission, ditto every cabinet position. He’s exercised power in ways not even Nixon dreamed of. But alas. As Paul said: what if he were a completely different person?

Sean's avatar

I was just talking the other with someone about if Trump or others could go back in time to 2019 knowing everything that happened, they wouldn't do a better job on COVID. They'd discredit and fire Fauci.

Gordon Reynolds's avatar

Sadly, yes. He’d have made things even worse, given a redo. But we still had at least a few people in government at the time who could restrain some of his worst impulses. Not so today. There’s a lot we could imagine, like him getting actually impeached and tossed out of office. But we’re where we are.

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

Imagine if Bernie was president.

Dan Quinn's avatar

Bernie would have beaten T, one on one, the first time. But Hillary won the D nomination. Let’s use Star Voting!!

The Great Sandini's avatar

For starters, Canada wouldn’t hate you. (Just kidding, we only hate 50% of you ❤️)

Baden Ewart's avatar

Someone like Kamala Harris perhaps? Competent, confident and capable. Also law-abiding, modest and honest. I could go on. But these six values seem about right compared to the pedophile President and his republicunt enablers. What is it with mostly white men that they can’t grasp that women are always a better choice than felons, fraudsters, sexual predators, inept bankrupts, thieves and braggarts? Time to wake the fuck you ‘bros.

Jordan Sollitto's avatar

The inflation that bedeviled Biden was a GLOBAL phenomenon precipitated largely by the pandemic. Americans' myopia prevented them from realizing that the U.S. suffered LESS inflation than nearly all other developed countries. And "The Times" just can't bring themselves to simply headline their story "More pure, unadulterated bullshit from Trump"...even though that is precisely what it all deserves.

Acela's avatar

The inflation rate in Europe peaked at 10.7% in November 2022.

The highest inflation ever got in the USA was 9.1% in June 2022.

Nana Booboo's avatar

The media hated Biden and wanted Trump back, that's why they kept telling everyone they were suffering when most of them weren't

Acela's avatar

I think what Prof. Krugman wrote last week (Nov. 6) is a factor:

"So, many voters turned to Trump, believing his promises that he would bring prices down to pre-Covid levels. They remembered the low inflation, low mortgage rates and full employment that prevailed on the eve of the pandemic and let themselves be persuaded that Trump could turn back the clock."

Michael's avatar

Historically Trump has been good for the news business. News about him kept readers engaged and subscribed. But I think we have reached peak Trump. Nothing he does can really surprise anyone anymore. The daily reports of outrageous incidents have gotten boring. Trump has jumped the shark. The Republicans in Congress are starting to notice. They are taking small steps to oppose him and not getting much pushback.

Nevoustrumpezpas's avatar

Excellent comment. Maybe we can hope for his withdrawal from politics on account of his inability (at some point which we haven't yet reached) to entertain or to outrage us with his bilious nonsense.

User's avatar
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Nov 12
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Louise Purfield-Coak's avatar

Yes, I cancelled my subscription two years before the election, because when I tried to comment politely on his narcissism and apparent fascism, they refused to print. And I really liked the Cooking Section.

jay teitelbaum's avatar

How about a column on trumps 50 yr mortgage. Stupid news reporters are missing the point focusing on how much more interest you pay over 50 yrs. The point is few people stay in one home for the life of the mortgage and will never pay that interest. They buy a home for a period of time like until the kids are out of school or job change or to upgrade and pull their equity out. The 50 yr mtg is another scam to concentrate wealth among trump cronies and the keep middle class down. The worst part of a 50 yr mortgage isn’t the extra interest which will never be paid, it is the amortization. With a 50 yr mortgage the amount of the payment applied to reducing principal is at least 30% of the amount applied in a 30 yr mortgage. So when you sell in 10 yrs you have little to no equity vs a 30 yr. To buy the next home.

This is the real harm to homeowners who try build their wealth through home ownership. Another scam to hurt the people he swore an oath to protect.

jay teitelbaum's avatar

Chaos benefits the uber wealthy. We are getting economic policy from a jerk who never paid for anything in his life and had a business model of screwing contractors who worked for him

Diane Bagues's avatar

And how many bankruptcies? Six, at least.

Myra Ferree's avatar

Add the US to that list soon.

RobWhitH's avatar

A 50 year mortgage creates a permanent debtor class and takes equity (ownership) away from the middle class and gives to the rich, thus creating two classes in society: rich and poor. Without the middle class, there is no real democracy, but that's the goal of the oligarchs isn't it?

Barb O's avatar

IF we make it out to the other side, and it's a big IF right now, there are major things that have to be accomplished if we are to have a country going forward. Bust up all the monopolies and oligopolies, wealth tax and sharply increase taxing the rich, narrow the income gap bigly, create universal health care, and overturn Citizens United. For a start.

Louise Purfield-Coak's avatar

Yes, we can walk and chew gum at the same time, so let's add impeaching the crooks in the Supreme Court to the list, if we can get the numbers in Congress or expand the Court at least.

Jenn Borgesen's avatar

Japan briefly offered 100 year mortgages in an effort to offset high real estate prices in the 1980s. It was a failure and now the highest term offered is 35 years.

David's avatar

In Ireland my lender will not give out a mortgage that will extend past your 67 birthday. It meant a 26 year mortgage for me but I was fine with that

Kimberly's avatar

Deregulation in the US. It has only served the wealthy and they've become the uber wealthy. Or - oligarchs.

Max Kerpelman's avatar

I fear that this is setting us up for another Great Recession in 40-50 years. 70-year-old homeowners die, go into nursing homes, no longer have the income to support mortgage payments, etc. So many houses go on the market that prices drop and the mortgages are under water. Suddenly, the securitized mortgage investments lose value, and a major bank or fund collapses.

Derelict's avatar

You're surprised that the guy who wants to forcibly convert U.S. Treasuries into 100-year notes is suggesting people take out 50-year mortgages?

Barb O's avatar

As if we learned nothing the first two times this already happened. Oh, wait. We learned that lots of people in the real estate, mortgage, and banking industries, as well as the FHA, make boatloads of money through fraud, and only get a slap on the wrist for the havoc they create, the people they impoverish, and the communities they destroy.

jay teitelbaum's avatar

Not surprised at all. The press is scared so not informing people. Forums are the way. Btw i am a retired bankruptcy attorney who saw first hand the impact of stupid financial decisions and misinformation

Les Peters's avatar

Generally I have no sympathy for reporters, but in this case they may have decided their audience wouldn’t be able to follow the slightly more subtle amortization argument. A lot of people are either numbers-phobic or lack the patience to pay close attention for the couple of minutes it takes to explain financial concepts.

Andan Casamajor's avatar

That was my second thought as well. I went through some basic training to prepare for what turned out to be a brief stint as a loan officer for a mortgage broker. Without an amortization schedule, you have an interest-only loan and never pay down the principal, so there's always a part of each payment applied to the outstanding loan balance. Monthly payments are calculated to keep up the interest payments while gradually reducing the remaining debt. As the balance goes down, the interest is less and less, so an unchanging monthly payment results in more and more principal being paid off each month as the years go by.

With a 66 percent longer loan life to amortize, very little principal reduction will take place for years. You have a lower payment, sure, and many borrowers won't look beyond that, but it will be almost all interest for a loooooong time. The lender gets pure gravy, but you might as well be renting in terms of actually owning the property some day.

So, higher interest rates (compare rates between 30-year and 15-year loans now; longer terms come at a price), almost all of the payments only servicing the debt for many years, but lower payments to entice the gullible who can't think long term; what could go wrong? Sounds like subprime variable rates all over again.

I can only guess that one of his finance-bro pals put that bug in his dumb ears, knowing he would tout it as an affordability gimmick. But the backlash from MAGA has probably spooked him. Really, really bad idea.

Richard's avatar

Thank you. I was thinking there was more to it than just the difference in the amount of interest

George Patterson's avatar

Oh, there is. For one thing, you can buy a bigger house. And, if you have a decent job, you can refinance when and if you can afford to do that. In a stable economy, you'll have a four-bedroom house paid off in 30 years, instead of a three-bedroom house paid off in 30 years.

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

I think you meant people who own a home with a mortgage pay little of the principle if they only live there a short time. Most of their payments would be interest so they would accumulate little equity. This is exacerbated by going from a 30 to a 50 year mortgage term. Sure the payments would be lower, but so would the potential equity and capital gains.

Sanjeev's avatar

Trump doesn't lie due to a situational need. He's a pathological liar who can't control his habit. When you ask him something, his first response is a lie even when there is no need. That's how he has spent his whole life. The saddest part of American Democracy is that such an imbecilic, immoral and incompetent man reached the highest public office.

Would you believe me or your lying eyes? - Is the life in Trump's world.

Gary B Page's avatar

He did have lying reinforced by saving so much money refusing to pay workers and contractors over the years. I don't even live anywhere near where that happened, but I have still talked to a waiter who had a friend who had contracted for Trump. Trump, of course, refused to pay. It put the friend out of business and into bankruptcy. That, in turn, led to suicide.

Shrew of Amherst's avatar

Paul Krugman is the MAN/person/witness for this moment. So grateful for his insight.

Rena Stone's avatar

I have been grateful for Prof. Krugman's writing since he offered a sane voice in the run-up to the Iraq war. And I'm thrilled he left the Times - made it easy to drop my subscription plus - we get a whole lot more of him!

Laura's avatar

Even if you are working and affluent enough to own stocks, Trump’s malicious stupidity is both enraging and terrifying. In my last meeting with our company-sponsored financial advisor, a young professional assured me with PowerPoints and earnestness that “people are still spending” despite the crazy. I sense a desperation coming from Wall Street that “Trump really isn’t this bad” now that it’s obvious he really is this bad … and the one big beautiful betrayal hasn’t even kicked in yet.

Sandra Mullins's avatar

The top 10% does almost 50% of the consumer spending in the economy. These are the same people who are doing most of the trading on Wall Street. We have a bifurcated economy.

Milton Deemer's avatar

Are people spending? Yes. It is called stocking up. People are not stupid. They can see a train wreck coming.

Gordon Reynolds's avatar

Lots of working people owned stock on Oct. 29, 1929.

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

Still true that about half of people own some stocks, including indirectly through retirement plans.

Bern's avatar

The "We are spending" part is another manifestation of The Great Slosh – the massive typhoon of cash roiling around and thru this Greatest Nation of All®. There's no stopping it.

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

NPR Marketplace reported that discretionary spending is high only in the top 10% of earners, while 90% of the population is spending on basic needs only. The poor and middle class are spending more, but on more costly groceries, transportation, rent, energy, etc. because of inflation, and because they have no choice.

Leslie Goodman-Malamuth's avatar

Once again, President Biden was penalized severely for something for which Trump was never criticized, blamed away, got a pass, was sanewashed. The tipping point on inflation this year has been reached by Trump’s nonstop lie fest about “affordability.” We the People shop ourselves for the items that the regime has its staff pick up, put away, serve, clean up after. Their accountants pay the bills.

Sandra Mullins's avatar

President Biden was severely criticized by mainstream media because he had an economic agenda that benefited all Americans. And he wanted everyone to pay their fair share in taxes. The wannabe Oligarchs didn’t want that. They fought hard against Biden.

Leslie Goodman-Malamuth's avatar

Biden also refused to give the NYT’s Sulzberger a long first interview. He also didn’t spew out colorful, abusive, trim-to-fit copy 24/7. Kaboom, four years of abuse.

Diane Bagues's avatar

It’s said Trump has never set foot in a grocery store. A point is made one way or the other, whether he has or hasn’t.

Leslie Goodman-Malamuth's avatar

When Trump entered a family-owned grocery while campaigning last year, he ooohed and ahhhed. I suspect Mary Ann stopped sending him out for a loaf of bread when he stole the bread and pocketed the cash to grow his switchblade fund. His homage to the Jets of “West Side Story” was one reason he was shipped off to NYMAGA.

Edward Weber's avatar

THIS is exactly why I cancelled my NYT subscription -

But the Times went on to engage in some serious false equivalence:

‘Mr. Trump risks being in a similar position as his predecessor, defending his record by pointing to statistics that don’t capture a troubling reality that many Americans are feeling…”

Sorry, but that’s a false comparison. You might even call it fake news — because Trump is not, in fact, pointing to any statistics. He’s just lying.

Laura's avatar

I just renewed for another insanely low price! They must be facing a really soft market for renewals because this is the second or third time I refused to pay the full price and they give it away for pennies.

William Seager's avatar

When the marginal cost of a subscriber is virtually zero, why not make a few pennies rather than nothing?

Rainer Dynszis's avatar

"why not make a few pennies rather than nothing?"

Because word gets around, and ultimately every legacy subscriber will want the same deal, I guess?

William Seager's avatar

maybe, but "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people" :)

Laura's avatar

I'm using the money I save to pay on Substack!

George Patterson's avatar

My wife likes the cooking section, and she buys the subscription. I look at the Opinions page every other day. If she decides to cancel, I won't cry.

Steve Kierkegaard's avatar

In fact there seems to be a conspiracy to cook the US economic statistics or even eliminate the inconvenient ones. Trump’s Bureau of Labor Statistics laid off all its workers in October, and they were thus unable to collect new unemployment data, for the first time in a very long time, if not since they started the BLS. Private employment data indicates some massive non-government job layoffs occurred las month. This gives Trump and his minions motive to conceal the truth that employment is probably taking a nose dive.

Of course they are blaming the Democrats, though this act was a choice. This Administration could have called the BLS employees essential workers, but did not.

Erin's avatar

It is a little raw to read your point “we haven’t seen mass layoffs (yet).” This seems a little tone deaf to the thousands of federal jobs lost in the DC area due to the dismantling of USAID, as well as the downstream job losses of government contractors. These were mostly good white collar jobs and their loss has a ripple effect in the economy—people forego house improvements, landscaping, the vacation, the salon, eating out… Perhaps no one cares about “the swamp” but these cuts have hit other areas as well, such as North Carolina. Then there are CDC, EPA, DoD, Dof Ag, etc. I always wished that Economists would delve into specifics when they gleefully talk about x# of jobs being added to the economy this month, because it matters if these jobs are at Walmart (where many staff still require SNAP), or are six figures.

Jenn Borgesen's avatar

It is, and I am seeing ot locally. The saying is that if the nation gets a cold, Michigan has pneumonia. Our unemployment rate is at 5.3 as of August. Many of us are hearing rumbles of pending layoffs, and M&A activity is also sure to force out many to create 'efficiencies' to further line the pockets of corporate overlords.

Our severance details have been posted since October for all to see the Sword of Damocles hanging over us.

Laura's avatar

My company just stood up a major new venture in India. Outsourcing IT work to India is nothing new, but Trump's visa madness makes this investment look like a major 'win' for people arguing that the USA is in decline under this regime.

Mark Stave's avatar

Many years ago I spent a few years teaching high school math & science. My hardest job was to get my students to buy into the notion that learning STEM would be critically important to their future selves.... Although I had no idea that our country would descend into a toxic mix of official Republican lies, echoed and reinforced by billionaire owned media companies.

Until we begin to teach critical thinking skills starting in 7th grade, focused on STEM and the evaluation of credibility information sources, we will continue to fight over Republican fueled wedge issues, until the death toll due to increasingly severe climate change impacts becomes an unavoidable, unifying reality. Tragically, I suspect that will be far too late to avoid the existential catastrophic impacts that will be backed into out children/grandchildrens' lives - however long those lives might be

CJ in SF's avatar

Critical thinking can be built up from teaching rhetorical fallacies with no need for STEM. And that started in 5th grade at my school with an extended section on the tools and power of advertising.

Unfortunately modern education specialization makes it far too easy for STEM focused programs to skip arts and humanities.

Hence the Silicon Valley love affair with neo-libertarianism.

Alexander Stewart's avatar

As a STEM guy myself, I still work work with people who are in thrall of the Republican party, so knowledge of STEM isn't quite the antiseptic you might think it is unfortunately. However, one of them that I work with is still regularly involved in his church, so that may be the countervailing factor.

Kimberly's avatar

I thought the point was with a STEM education you would better learn critical thinking but don't want to speak for the comentator.

Alexander Stewart's avatar

Fair enough...perhaps I extrapolated too much. But re-reading the post I still come away with the same message, which is critical thinking would make one less susceptible to falling for "Republican lies" and that STEM inevitably leads to better critical thinking. I certainly agree with the notion that critical thinking leads to better outcomes, regardless of how it's pursued.

Kimberly's avatar

I was agreeing. We need more critical thinking. STEM is a vehicle for better critical thinking skills.

Rena Stone's avatar

Yeah, I don't think proficiency in STEM subjects is the foil against MAGA thinking that you think it is. Depending on the type of subjects we're thinking of.

Gordon Reynolds's avatar

I was a mediocre high school student, but there are only a handful of classes that carried into my later life. I remember one teacher, a very severe man who taught Chemistry, a class I didn’t much care for. But what finally impressed me with him is that not only would he grade our tests, he’d grade our NOTEBOOKS too. He wanted to see that we were paying attention and making sense of his presentations. He said to us: I don’t care whether you learn chemistry so much as I want to see you can make sense of what you’re being taught - or something to that effect. IOW, he wanted to produce functioning brains. This was in 1969. God knows what high school is like today.

Robert Manz's avatar

And remind people that all in all it is an American virtue to call out and reject liars.

VP's avatar

I don’t understand why the people who keep talking about the stock markets don’t also point out that nearly all the stock market gains under Trump are erased once you adjust for the drop in the dollar.

IOW, if you invested Euros in a broad based US index fund when Trump came into power, and converted all your investments back to Euros today, you would have pretty much the same number of Euros.

Charles Bryan's avatar

I take your point but I think you are failing to take into account the so-called "wealth effect." To wit, if inflation is only running 2-3% per year but my stocks have increased in value by 10-15%, that mean my real return in dollars is 7-12%. Even though the value of those dollars may have declined, that 'real return' feels like wealth to the vast majority of U.S. stock holde

Jenn Borgesen's avatar

At least until the bottom falls out and we get the long overdue correction. This administration does not have the chops to deal with a market drop like the great recession.

At least Jerome Powell has some sense ...

Charles Bryan's avatar

Yeah, most Americans are unaware that in January 1933, when FDR took office, the national unemployment rate wqs 25% (!). For the math challenged, that means that 1 in 4 adults who wanted to work was unable to find work. Statistics aside, capitalism itself was on the ropes in 1933 and, 75 years of reactionary bullshit notwithstanding, FDR saved capitalism.

This was before the advent of social safety net programs like Unemployment Insurance and (for seniors) Social Security. Trump's depredations notwithstanding, those two legacy New Deal programs may provide enough 'oomph' to prevent a full-scale depression (defined as a decline of 20% or more in annual GDP). They will not be sufficient to prevent a serious recession.

I really wish Ken Burns would focus his considerable documentary chops on the Great Depression, rather than the Revolutionary War (his next major release, from what I hear).

Jenn Borgesen's avatar

I am however looking forward to his new documentary on the Revolutionary War. Some interesting parallels may emerge there as well.

Charles Bryan's avatar

I just heard an interview between Burns and The Atlantic's Tom Nichols on the forthcoming documentary. Fascisnating stuff, I agree. And since we've just recently passed the 250-year anniversary of the Battle of Lexington and Concord (April 19, 1775), timely as all get out.

I'm just saying it's way past time for a fresh look at the Great Depression. James Agee's and Walker Evans' magisterial "Let Us Now Praise Famous Men" is in need of a contemporaneous update, especially given Trump's recent Gatsby bash!

George Patterson's avatar

I just checked Amazon. They have 264 fine historical books on the Great Depression. He probably feels that the market is a bit saturated.

Stephen Burg's avatar

If Trump says prices are down, his followers will believe it. It won't even matter that anybody who shops at the grocery store can see it's not true. This is all straight out of Orwell's "1984".

Rena Stone's avatar

Yep. They are utterly immune to any actual "facts" in the real world.

H. H.'s avatar

Is there a place to point to the average person to the prices that their own grocery store was charging several months ago? For specific items, like eggs, bacon? Sure, for electric bills you can look at prior ones.

Stephen Burg's avatar

I tend to keep receipts and occasionally check a new one versus an old one. This year, groceries seem to be up at least 10 percent. But that's anecdotal evidence.

Michael heit's avatar

The lying of the NYTimes is a long time problem

I have attempted to point this out in the comments ALOT but of course never get it passed the editors (censors)

Cuts too close to home

Brent James's avatar

Trump IS pointing to statistics… 200% percent reductions, 600% reductions… fake impossible statistics that exploit an undereducated, unbelievably gullible cultist desperate population. Switching… Biden fucked up by not pushing hard for I forget what it’s called but an excessive profit tax (windfall, that’s it) that gets rebated to consumers.

H. H.'s avatar

How do you get the "undereducated, unbelievably gullible, cultist desperate population" that you mention, or their relatives to tell them, to look up their grocery prices of a year ago? Is there a place where they can look up historical grocery prices? Easier to look up their electricity bill of a year ago, if they keep their bills. Or, to have them ask ChatGPT about what the prices were. But do that 6 months before elections.

Brent James's avatar

Not sure I follow you. Are you saying how do you get his cultists to gain a more complete and accurate picture of overall nominal inflation? I think it’s over their heads to do a proper analysis. I think the big wazoo treatment related to insurance and all the gatzby behavior maybe… maybe will cause his herd to stampede a different direction. The Epstein scandal maybe. I worry the most about citizens united and dobbs decisions and time the most. The next crook may be as evil but not as incompetent. I dunno.

H. H.'s avatar

Yes, I was not clear. I totally agree that some things (like inflation is "rate" of price increase) are hard to get; I was aiming at leading these people to the single isolated fact that their own prices have not come down, like Trump has promised them, but that these prices have gone up. So, they should re-consider their vote, not with overall sets of facts but with single instances of lies that affect their lives very much.

George Patterson's avatar

Anyone who shops with a credit card and owns a computer can look up all of their bills for the last year. In my case, I print out a summary each year to use for tax preparation. That summary has categories. I can tell you how much I spent on groceries in 2015.

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CJ in SF's avatar

You are a million percent right.