755 Comments
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ISOequanimity's avatar

I wistfully remember the summary of the Carter-Mondale administration: “Together we told the truth, we obeyed the law and we kept the peace.” They had a commitment to ethical governance, constitutional adherence, and maintaining peace domestically and internationally. Quite a contrast to the trumped up charge of narco terrorism.

Clym Yeobright's avatar

It’s called “being a person of honor, integrity, and character.” Our forefathers understood it.

ISOequanimity's avatar

These are the closing lines of the Declaration of Independence: “And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”

Clym Yeobright's avatar

FYI: “Providence is a hell-hole. Don’t talk to me about Providence. I can tell you stories about Providence like the world has never seen before. I heard them from burly men with tears in their eyes who called me Sir. Huh? What’s that? Oh. Never mind.”

Lydia Sugarman's avatar

Yah, the forefathers' "Divine Providence" means nothing to those of us who are atheists or women, or people of color.

ISOequanimity's avatar

“When Thomas Jefferson wrote "our sacred honor" in the Declaration of Independence, he meant the signers pledged their integrity, reputation, and deep moral commitment, risking everything—even their lives and fortunes—to support independence, viewing it as a divine duty above personal interest, showing ultimate loyalty to the new nation's cause.” Google AI

Gerald Fnord's avatar

They had to make a point of it because on the surface many of them appeared at that point to be violating the oaths they had sworn to the LORD to support the King and his lawful heirs.

Merlin Dorfman's avatar

Is that true? Did individual citizens, not even in Britain but in the colonies, personally swear allegiance to the king?

Gerald Fnord's avatar

I was sloppily basing that on having heard that this was the case, and in an age when 'oath-breaker' meant something, and it sounding right—Washington was a commissioned officer and then (if I remember rightly) in the House of Burgesses. A quick Google™ search indicates that many of them had held colonial offices or been in the military, and to whom else would they have sworn loyalty?—Kings (EDIT: or the governments ruling in their names) get touchy about the opinions of the people they arm. (The civilian office-holders would usually, if I remember correctly, also swear that they didn't believe that the Eucharist were anything beside bread and wine, the better to stave-off the International Romish Conspiracy.)

—but if someone knows me to be wrong, please, I'd like to know.

[EDIT] Your point was a valid one: I doubt many ordinary subjects who'd not been in the military would have had to have sworn an oath of allegiance, but (_trying_ to avoid casual Marxism, but) the Founders were exactly the sort of people the rulers of Britain cared about keeping on-side, because they knew that they were the ones most suited to revolt. (My father thought that many of the Founders could have been bought-off with knighthoods and patents of nobility.)

Martha Ture's avatar

Except for slaves, and indigenous people, and woman, and white men without property.

Gerald Fnord's avatar

Very true.

It sometimes seems to me that honour-systems are so costly that societies can afford them only by excluding as many from them as they can.

Gerald Fnord's avatar

Close to the beginning, there is the wonderful and now sadly missed 'A decent respect to the opinions of mankind'.

ISOequanimity's avatar

I had forgotten that! “A decent respect to the opinions of mankind" is a phrase where the American colonies, seeking independence from Britain, explain their decision to the world, showing respect for global opinion by offering logical justifications for their revolution, treating humanity as reasonable beings capable of understanding justice, and seeking their assent rather than acting unilaterally or out of mere whim. It signifies a belief that a just cause, when clearly presented, will be understood and respected by reasonable people everywhere.” Google AI

LK WOODRUFF's avatar

Gee, maintaining honor….behaving ethically & w integrity…compromising w others…keeping oaths made…. ONE BAD APPLE TRULY DOES MAKE THE ENTIRE BARREL GO ROTTEN.

LK WOODRUFF's avatar

Gotta wonder when the last time was that most Americans read the Declaration of Independence…..

Rick N's avatar

It’s ironic that among all the gold ornamentation in the oval there is on of the original copies of the declaration hanging on the wall. Does he ever read it or will he pull it out and set it aflame when he declares himself king.

Gerald Fnord's avatar

He doesn't read, period—his father seems to me to have been exactly of the type both to deprecate reading and to shame (say) mild dyslexia in a son.

He likely considers 0.) the whole document, as all statements of ideas, to be bullshit except as a symbol to be manipulated, as if it were a flag to grope, and 1.) not applicable to him because nothing negative _should_ be, or so his take on Positive Thinking tells him.

NubbyShober's avatar

Not to worry: President Trump has staged a masterful distraction from those pesky Epstein files with his new Epstein Venezuela War! Which is, as I'm sure you'll agree, far more distracting than that Epstein Ballroom project. Or the Epstein-Lincoln bathroom remodel.

Now no one is talking about America's most prolific pedophile! Or of the decades where he and our President were carefree BFF's! Palling around at Jeffrey's parties in NYC and Palm Beach, where many underage girls were alleged to have been present.

NubbyShober's avatar

She was the fourteen-year-old Trump allegedly raped at one of Jeffrey's NYC parties in 1994, right? And what ever happened to her lawsuit?

ISOequanimity's avatar

She was 13. That’s middle school. Some girls aren’t even ovulating yet. Katie Johnson alleges that she was tied to the four corners of a bed before being raped, with onlookers present and ignoring her screams for help. I spent my career as a middle school guidance counselor. In 1994, the year this allegedly took place, the most popular Christmas gifts for 13 year old girls were Furby and Polly Pocket. https://katemanne.substack.com/p/the-actual-conspiracy-theory-surrounding

Old Uncle Dave's avatar

She dropped the lawsuit after threats were made against her and her family members.

ISOequanimity's avatar

There is no statute of limitations for rape in NY. Hopefully, Katie Johnson has reached out to Alvin Bragg to file charges.

Cindy La Ferle's avatar

Oh yes, these people are masters of distraction. Smoke and mirrors. Lies and deceit.

Beryl's avatar

I don't know that this distraction is "masterful" because I am again reading more about the Epstein files as there is another due date that is surely going to be missed by the DOJ. As the Venezuela invasion for oil begins to crash one does not have to speculate on where the next more is going to be and my guess is that is just around the corner because like it or not, the 2025 document/declaration is aiming to take over the world piece by piece and trump is now their spokesperson making it happen, even though he may not even realize that he is the dummy in all of this being manipulated by all the other so-called enablers.

George Patterson's avatar

The administration is talking Greenland. Rubio is also sending out "warnings" to Cuba.

Sharon's avatar

The Cuban and Venezuelan diaspora who are so influential in Florida. I've read that they're the ones who've sold the invasion to Rubio and Trump. I doubt Hegseth took any convincing. It's an opportunity to march around with guns.

Okboomer's avatar

Have you ever seen any trio pound their chests so much about how great the US military is as Trump, Hegseth and Caine did on Saturday?

It was embarrassing for the country and the military.

Joe Bacon's avatar

I am a Gold Star father.

Dumbya Bush lied us into a war that killed my only son.

I have seen Trump's Gestapo in action here in Los Angeles and how the National Guard and Marines assisted them as they violated the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.

The US Military has made it clear that they will follow any illegal order Trump and Hegseth issue.

Whatever faith I had that Congress and the military would stand with the Constitution is now gone forever.

Stefan Paskell's avatar

Paying attention, I see.

Joe Zeigler's avatar

Delay has always worked for Trump. Read my thoughts on Burnt Ground.

Gramsci's avatar

The only thing I’ve learned so far from the Epstein Files is there are different rules for the wealthy and well connected than for the rest.

Tom Cebic's avatar

You didn't learn that from Gramsci?

Gramsci's avatar

Oh Jeez... I should have read all of the prison diaries....

Charles's avatar

Don't forget Jack Smith's testimony before the House Judiciary Committee. The testimony transcript was released on New Years Eve. Two days later, we attacked Venezuela and arrested its president. Trump distracted from three crimes with this action: The Epstein Files; the January Sixth attack on the Capitol and the stolen. classified documents stored at Mar-a-Lago. Nice trifecta Mr. Prez! I suggest you try doing something legal. Then you wouldn't have to constantly try to find new distractions.

Donald's avatar

Distracting the voters from the fact they struggle, and too often are failing, to afford high prices as the grocery and even higher health insurance premiums is as important. So far as occupying the media and public awareness this wagging dog is three for.

Jennie H.'s avatar

You aren't going to distract people from their money. It's too important to their daily lives. The rich may be able to ignore fluctuations but not those of us who have to decide whether or not we can afford hamburger this week.

Andan Casamajor's avatar

Then there's the niggling fact that the deficit, and with it the unsustainable national debt, continues to rise through all of our Trump "prosperity" and makes new, unprovoked war making all the more insane. Millions just saw their health insurance soar out of reach, the jobs numbers are blinking red, the AI death-race bubble is inflating while singlehandedly propping up aggregate macroeconomic metrics, small business bankruptcies are reaching record levels, and the capacity of US companies to continue absorbing tariffs is near the breaking point (which will abruptly surge prices).

All good stuff, right? Somehow, Venezuela's 17 percent of proven oil reserves produce roughly 1 percent of global production, so appropriating "our oil" to flood a glutted market will be pure, easy gravy, right? And a piece of cake to do so in a volatile country that could descend into civil war or Iraq-style insurgency when the deranged mob boss sends his usual "best people" in to "run" the country.

So, smooth sailing, a new golden age of American greatness. Onward and upward. Sky's the limit. Greenland, Canada, Colombia, Mexico, Iran (oops, wrong hemisphere)? Utter madness in word and deed.

Man, the raw Epstein files have to be radioactively toxic. This is a skinny puppy's tail wagging a very big dog.

User's avatar
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Jan 5
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Marliss Desens's avatar

Invasions and wars aren't inexpensive, either.

Theodora30's avatar

Unfortunately for Carter the media looked down on him and his administration because they were from Georgia. Two of his biographers, Kai Bird and Jonathan Alter, both said when they started their research they expected to find he was a mediocre president but a great ex-president (apparently they had swallowed the media framing) but were surprised to discover all the really consequential things he had done. For example he instituted a lot of open government policies like creating the position of Inspector General and the Presidential Records Act as well as very impactful his energy independence and green energy programs. For example under Carter CAFE standards were instituted which greatly improved auto fuel efficiency but have regularly been weakened by Republicans. Reagan infamously removed the solar panels Carter had had installed on the White House even though they were working well.

Krispy's avatar

Carter installed solar panels on the White House

Rena Stone's avatar

Which repubs said was an outrage. I mean, an outrage worse, for example, than literally tearing down the East Wing.

Robot Bender's avatar

Reagan ripped them off.

Stephen Schiff's avatar

. . .that Regan took down. Talk about symbolism!

ISOequanimity's avatar

Imagine if Carter had been re-elected? I might not have been seduced by Reagan’s trickle down prosperity theology.

Wayne Stiles's avatar

A big reason for Reagan's win over Carter was that members of Reagan's election team contacted the Iranians holding our embassy people and told them not to release those hostages during Carter's term. They promised the Iranians "a better deal" if they waited until Reagan was elected president. A typical GOP/conservative undermining of our elected government and a complete disregard for the welfare of hostages held for an extended time in horrible conditions. All to ensure a Republican was elected.

Fred Krasner's avatar

It's the Nixon-Kissinger playbook. Trump, Manafort, Don Jr., and Stone took it a step further by "no collusion"-ing with the Russians in public view.

ISOequanimity's avatar

I remember that distinctly. And when the hostages were freed immediately following the inauguration, the canonization was complete.

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

There's a great book about it titled "October Surprise", by Devlin Barrett. It details much of the evidence and testimony about the scheme/scam. Unfortunately, there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute anybody.

George Patterson's avatar

"Treason be ne'er successful, Sir.

What then be the reason?

Why, if treason be successful, Sir.

None dare call it treason."

Wayne Stiles's avatar

There never seems to be (LOL).

Okboomer's avatar

Ah, I think it was more about Reagan telling the bubbas they could drive big SUV’s and not worry about the environment that really won it in 1980. That was the beginning of the end. The end is coming now.

ColBatGuano's avatar

All I know is that the Dems better be on the phone to Big Oil to let them know there aren't going to be any tax cuts for investments in Venezuelan oil.

Rena Stone's avatar

From what I've read, big oil isn't as interested in Venezuelan oil as Chump seems to think it is.

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I personally wasn't seduced by the "trickle down" lie. I knew even then we'd get trickled on, and that's exactly what happened. I'm disgusted that it took America damn near half a century to finally figure that out, and that it took the Orange Catastrophe to wake everybody up.

Rena Stone's avatar

Have "Americans" figured that out yet? I'm really not sure that they have.

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I believe at this point most have. There remains, of course, a fairly significant percentage who are still in a hypnotic trance, mainly because their heads are buried neck deep in Faux Newspeak.

Lester Soss's avatar

Winston, perhaps you should reread Orwell's essay, "Politics and the English Language". It might keep you from throwing "Jackboots into melting pots."

I do like the clarify of your later comment about Carter being the most underrated president of all time !

Anna Feruglio Dal Dan's avatar

I remember that clearly, and I thought it was a disaster, but I never imagined the magnitude of it. That is the point where we slipped into the worst timeline.

I would like to think that there is another timeline where Carter won a second term and the greatest controversial debate right now is on whether five women on the Supreme Court are too many, and if a holiday on the Moon is really all it’s chalked up to be.

PinHead's avatar

My brother remembers Gephart opposed him biggly

Winston Smith London Oceania's avatar

I maintain that Carter remains the most underrated president of all time - and St. Reagan the most overrated.

robert's avatar

JFK was not perfect, having come to office saddled with alot of cold war baggage, but he was by far the most progressive modern president and that in essence was why he was 'removed'.

leave my name off's avatar

According to David Talbot in his book, The Devil's Chess Board, it was an inside job orchestrated by Allen Dulles, who was pissed off that JFK fired him for attempting a regime change coup without informing JFK when he entered office and for botching The Bay of Pigs fiasco.

KMD's avatar

Allen Dulles, head of the CIA during the Eisenhower presidency, has a lot to answer for. At the bequest of the US United Fruit Company, in 1954 we staged a coup in Guatamala because they wanted to nationalize their coffee fincas, and we removed their democratically elected President, Jacabo Arbenz.

That beautiful country has never been the same.

William L Miller's avatar

Trump, corporations and Republicanns understand how to exploit public ignorance of law and take control the legal system. For democracy and justice to work, citizens, Democrats in government, and journalists in the honest news media must understand the law and the legal system. The crime of insurrection is underway in the United States led by Trump and his administration illegally supported by Republicans in Congress and six justices on the Supreme Court. Citizens, but the news media and the federal government have not recognized the crime.

Ignorance of the law enabled insurrection in America to create a lawless fascist autocracy which began in 2025 as planned in Project 2025. The insurrection began on January 6, 2021. From 2021 to 2024, Biden, Garland and Jack Smith failed to enforce the law and put Trump and the insurrectionist in jail. And SCOTUS refsued to enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment to ban Trump from being on the ballot and holding office.

Monroe Doctrine? Trump and his administration illegally invaded and took control of Venezuela with military force as an act of War without Congressional approval and kidnapped the president, Maduro. Maduro was indicted but what US laws did he violate? What US law enabled the US to attack, invade and take control of Venezuela?

The federal criminal law in the United States is created by Congress and then described in Title 18 Part 1 of the U.S. Code which has multiple Chapters.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I

The crime of insurrection is defined in 18 U.S. Code Chapter 115 Part I - TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115

Specifically, the crime of insurrection is defined in 18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection which clearly states who is guilty of the felony crime with this language.

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

What did the news media say were the laws and cite evidence of violation used to indict Maduro and be able to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? What is the law that enables the US to invade and take control of Venezuela, ignore elected government officials, and ignore the need for new elections?

For more information about criminal law, read this reference.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/criminal_law

Wake up America, you have been deceived and your ignorance of law exploited.

robert's avatar

Most people don't follow the law - but around the World they are aware of the BRAZEN abandonment of the rule of domestic and international law by Trump and his handlers.

The UN today met to discuss the latter, many many speeches condemned Trump's violations of international law, his thefts of oil shipments, his murders on the high seas, lies about Venezuela, and his lies claiming that US corporations own the oil.

George Patterson's avatar

but nothing can be done there as long as the Security Council exists.

robert's avatar

its up to you Americans to do something about the crimes of your president and your Congress

Sharon's avatar

You are right. Unfortunately, democracies are messy and slow. I hope we still have one, even though it's obviously tattered.

Lance Khrome's avatar

And if trump takes Greenland? His military will have no "support law enforcement action" dodge to relieve them of following clearly illegal orders, and who amongst the EU will vote to send armed Nato forces to contest US occupation? trump is on a tear to prove that "might is right", and at this point he's completely correct. He now has "his generals" on side, Congress "expresses concern", and ROW mopes about wondering what trump's febrile mind will produce next...oy vey!

Karel Tripp's avatar

It will end NATO as we know it, and guess who would love that to happen. It would also isolate Canada.

Myra Ferree's avatar

Canada has become better integrated with Europe, thanks to T. It is the US that is becoming isolated. By choosing Russia and China as allies, T has trashed not just our reputation but our actual trade position.

Karel Tripp's avatar

Agree, although I think geographically Canada would be cut off from the East and Scandinavia and subject to increasing pressure from Trump to cede to the US.

Hiro's avatar

I am surprised to learn 20% of Americans are in favor of running Venezuela. Why are they in favor of it? They have the same trait as Mr. Trump to bully over another country. They form the source of the problem of democracy in America.

Nevoustrumpezpas's avatar

If it's 20 percent, at least it's less than the usual MAGAt percentage of around 33 percent for any harebrained thing that Trump or his minions propose.

Anna Feruglio Dal Dan's avatar

Carter was a nuclear engineer. If his father hadn’t died he would have commanded a nuclear submarine. At a time when the guy you had to pass muster with to get into that club was Admiral Rickover. The best Trump could do was pretend to be rich on a tv reality show.

Myra Ferree's avatar

Perfect contrast. Carter and Mondale were decent human beings who exercised the power they were given with humility and well researched thought. Telling the truth is a biggie.

Eric Hoffman's avatar

Maybe time to roll out this Tom Lerher: https://youtu.be/HHhZF66C1Dc

Rod Burke's avatar

Another function of djt’s ED (Erectile Distraction)

Jennifer From Ottawa's avatar

I’m not sure it is a trumped up charge. Maduro was indicted in NY federal court previously. My impression is that the CIA and military agreed to cooperate in this mission because there was a legal arrest warrant. I doubt they even knew that Trump intended to “run” Venezuela

Turgut Tuten's avatar

If the CIA and the military did not know/ask what would happen after this "mission", they are culpable and unqualified for the job. What sort of law enforcement mission to capture an indicted suspect would justify the deaths, the millions spent, etc, etc?

Jennifer From Ottawa's avatar

I’m not saying that I agree with this action. I am simply saying that it was not trumped up charges

Lester Soss's avatar

So, let me understand this; if a Danish court indicts Trump for corruption, Denmark would then have a right to kidnap him? (though, I wouldn't mind that!)

Mary Sampson's avatar

Yes, but Venezuelan drugs do not come to the US. It’s been proven they go mainly to Europe. How were these drugs a threat to the US?

LK WOODRUFF's avatar

Like day vs night.

Allenrrr's avatar

“They fell into the alarming error of taking the obedience of the soldier for the consent of the nation. Such confidence is the ruin of thrones. " Excerpt From: Hugo, Victor. “Les Misérables."”

Edmund Clingan's avatar

England in 1819 By Percy Bysshe Shelley

An old, mad, blind, despised, and dying King;

Princes, the dregs of their dull race, who flow

Through public scorn,—mud from a muddy spring;

Rulers who neither see nor feel nor know,

But leechlike to their fainting country cling

Till they drop, blind in blood, without a blow.

A people starved and stabbed in th' untilled field;

An army, whom liberticide and prey

Makes as a two-edged sword to all who wield;

Golden and sanguine laws which tempt and slay;

Religion Christless, Godless—a book sealed;

A senate, Time’s worst statute, unrepealed—

Are graves from which a glorious Phantom may

Burst, to illumine our tempestuous day.

Minty's avatar

Also by Percy Bysshe Shelley

Ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land,

Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone

Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,

Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,

And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,

Tell that its sculptor well those passions read

Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,

The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;

And on the pedestal, these words appear:

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare

The lone and level sands stretch far away

Gerald Fnord's avatar

I'd love to see Mr Trump put in the position of trying to explain the meaning of "Ozymandias".

Prosaic Political Punditry's avatar

DT: "That name.. sounds Middle Eastern or Arabic. Have TSA check his phone. Then deny him entry."

Nevoustrumpezpas's avatar

According to Wikipedia, Ozymandias was the Greek name for the Egyptian pharaoh Ramesses II.

Robot Bender's avatar

One of my favorites.

Al Brosseau's avatar

Wow, well said, congrats!!!

It brings to mind an old military proverb:

- Those the gods will destroy, they first make proud.prouder

Clym Yeobright's avatar

I expect trump’s dying words will echo those of Vespasian

“I think I can feel myself becoming a god”

Rena Stone's avatar

Nope. He'll be screaming for someone to save him as he's the most cowardly of the cowardly.

Gerald Fnord's avatar

I always assumed that Vespasian was making one last joke.

Clym Yeobright's avatar

I’ve read that. And I’ve read about others who joked at the last. And I hope my own last words will be a joke. But I’ll be aware that sometimes “You had to be there” is more a sign of ineptitude than an excuse - although I doubt anybody will be citing me after 19 centuries, will they? How about we grant it to Vespasian … and NOT to trump?

George Hicks's avatar

(Mis)"taking the obedience of the soldier for the consent of the nation" is the essence of great literature, distilling wisdom for the ages into absolute clarity.

Thank you for pulling that out - I somehow don't remember it; but now that you have brought it home, I will never forget it.

Ed Watson's avatar

I don’t think that Line made it into the musical and Donald Trump probably thinks the barriers were used to keep immigrants out

Liam Comer-Weaver's avatar

As a former civil servant at the State Department, I can confidently say the gutting of the department and shunning of expertise played a role in this blunder. Career experts would have told them that removing Maduro would do nothing to damage the Chavista authoritarian structure. If anything it reonforced it, as Maduro has never been seen as a capable manager of his coalition.

If you don't want your country to make stupid geopolitical moves, hire experts and listen to them.

Leu2500's avatar

Trump listen? We learned last week he doesn’t listen to his doctors re how much aspirin to take.

Robin D's avatar

Good. The more he takes the worse his clotting will be. I think he needs to increase his dosage. Brain bleeds, stomach bleeding. The next handshake could kill him 🤗 Wouldn't it be fitting for this 79 year old toddler to die from a baby aspirin overdose.

Gerald Fnord's avatar

Vance is smarter, more energetic, and more completely wed to a very evil ideology (Vermeulen-style Integralism ), as opposed to Mr Trump's complete self-worship.

Robin D's avatar

Yes, he is younger, smarter and wed to Peter Thiel and the tech bros, who want democracy gone, all of the marginalized drains of society ...sick, old, poor people dead, and the rest can be their serfs in their own little fiefdoms. Dark Enlightenment. I fear JD Vance more than Demented Donnie, but I doubt he has anyone who will fervently love him and think he is their saviour like Donnie..I have seen videos of poor deluded MAGA crying "save us President Trump" Vance has changed his name 3 times, his sexuality 3 times and his religion 3 times. I doubt anyone is going to feel JD Vance was sent to save them.

NSAlito's avatar

It would help if I knew JD was feuding with Miller and/or Noem rather than supporting them. Getting rid of Trump without getting rid of Miller/Noem leaves the abomination that is ICE in play.

Robin D's avatar

Yes, it's terrifying. For as much as I check 10 times a day to see if Donnie is dead, I am more afraid of us being left with this entire regime in place.It's like Venezuela. If you don't pull out every root and stem, how do you clean house and recover? I know it's terrible, but I dream all the time that the ballroom is up, and on it's opening night filled with 999 of the absolute worst of the worst people on the planet, everybody we know and loathe and fear is there, even Putin and Xi show up for the festivities, and even though it may be bullet proof and drone proof, I dream it won't be satellite proof, and right in the middle of his opening meandering boring weave... I hope a Starlink satellite crashes right on top of it and wipes every last one of them out in one fell swoop like the dinosaurs. One and done. There's nothing that makes me feel better if Donnie dies and JD inherits the throne before Donnie's term is up.JD would kill Donnie himself if he thought he could get away with it. He is already drunk with power. He is so.close.to the power of the presidency he can taste it. He will keep the same people I'm sure. And he's a religious fanatic who wants us to be a Christian country and I'm sure he wouldn't rest until he got that agenda through. I still.don't think that if he were actually going to run on his own, that he would win. He is terribly unlikable.and arrogant and vile. He's a disgusting person. A furniture fornicator. I would not be surprised to find out Usha is a mentally abused wife. I also worry that while Donnie or JD are in power Alito and Thomas will resign and they will install 2 of the worst right wing conservative Christian nationalists justices.I was born in a secular country. I am not Christian and I do not intend to die in one under a cross. No offense to anyone. I am close.to 70. Never once.in my entire life could I ever have imagined this could happen to us.

Miller and Vought are never leaving unless Donnie leaves, alive or feet first, we have a free and fair election, and we get a Democratic president back. As far.as.ICE...I am the granddaughter of 4 immigrants who didn't speak English. If there were no birthright citizenship neither of my parents who are first.generation would have been born citizens. My family is here over 100 years,.we lived and understand the immigrant story. There are good and bad of every race, religion,.ethnicity.I live in the biggest multicultural city in the world. I've always loved it. But If it were today with ICE and my grandparets and parents were alive? (especially elderly 😥?) I would live in total fear for them every single day. Plenty of the worst people in this country are the hypocritical bible belters white supremecists who our Congress is overflowing with. I wish we could do a DNA test on them and find out what they are really made of. Really, Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth love to make people take lie detector tests. I.think it should be DNA. Let's even the score here. I bet there would be lots of surprises. Some not too happy ones I'm sure 🤗

Gerald Fnord's avatar

Fair enough, but consider how unaceptable Mr Trump would be to evangelicals 'on paper'—for how many abortions has he paid?, how many times did he reënact the song "Lola" in the '70s?, and those are just my scabrous suppositions, separate to all the oath-breaking, {illegal immigrants}-hiring, promotion of gambling. (I know enough about white evangelicals to know that they don't consider the vindictiveness and housing discrimination to be minuses.)

Mr Vance may be stunningly a- or anti-charismatic, but that is what 'A.I.' is for, soon it will be easy to shew to each and every M.A.G.A. partisan _exactly_ the Vance they need to see to keep them on-side.

George Patterson's avatar

but Vance doesn't have the adoration of the MAGA crowd and I think the congresscritters aren't afraid of him.

James Flanagan's avatar

Some really excellent and informed comments on this post from Paul including this one. The 'authoritarian structure' thing applies to us as well now though I would add that the hatred of expertise, in my opinion, has deep roots in evangelical Calvinism and their anti-Catholic hatred of (priests) intermediaries and the (whole institutional Church) bureaucratic structures. So the Supreme Court justices enabling this are authoritarian dupes doing some legal heavy lifting for people who want to tear it all down and see 'authority' devolve schismatically into a completely atomized, racist society more or less in a state of nature. Which is even more delusional (and unconscious) than the stuff going on at Trump's level and in Republican Washington generally. The sheer insanity of the evangelicals' desires has worked in their favor. Democrats failed to see how nuts they were and didn't respond accordingly.

Robot Bender's avatar

Lord of the Flies with a surveillance state and nukes.

Ellen Skogsberg's avatar

James- The current authorization dupes want to go back to... dig deeper. https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1BpLUR8uZ6/

Ellen Skogsberg's avatar

That was the whole point in removing govt people in the first place. Trump does what his ego wants without interference from others. Hmmm... thinking of past "leaders" who used the same playbook. He just doesn't kill them, he removes them disappear/go away.

George Patterson's avatar

'Shortly after Trump told reporters yesterday that Venezuela’s former vice president, now president, Delcy Rodríguez is “essentially willing to do what we think is necessary to make Venezuela great again,” Rodríguez demanded Maduro’s return and said Venezuela would “never again be a colony of any empire, whatever its nature.” Indeed, U.S. extraction of Maduro and threats to “run” Venezuela are more likely to boost the Maduro government than weaken it.' - from Heather Cox Richardson this morning.

Sharon's avatar

Duh!!! If China came in and removed Trump we'd be angry. He's our problem to deal with, not theirs.

Nothing brings people together like an attack on one of their own. We've seen that time and again.

This is why ignorance and arrogance make such a terrible combination. In this case we have ignorance, arrogance and dominance.

Carol C's avatar

I agree, Sharon, and I hope we will someday learn why some people trust arrogant people, not people who can imagine they might possibly be wrong about something.

Gerald Fnord's avatar

Many of the American people absolutely _worship_ the notion that experts are worse than useless—they _love_ the janitor who proves all the Professors wrong. Oddly enough, these same people don't apply that reasoning to the staffing of their sports-teams, or of the cardiac O.R. that's going to try to fix them….

(When Mr Trump suggested injecting light or disinfectant to cure C.O.V.I.D.-19, it was obvious that he expected the medical experts sharing the stage with him all to slap their foreheads and cry 'Of course! It is so obvious!!, why didnʼt _we_ think of that…he is truly smarter than all of us!')

Carol C's avatar

It’s so telling, Gerald, about people wanting experts to staff sports teams, but cheering “influencers” who disparage genuine medical experts.

I haven’t looked, but there may be instructions online for setting your own broken bones. Or pulling your own decayed teeth. There is already a group selling the idea of”wild” births with no prenatal care, no midwives, let alone obstetricians. Some dead and some handicapped babies, some dead mothers, that’s just a side effect.

George Patterson's avatar

I searched Youtube and found tons of videos basically telling you to see a doctor about broken bones, two that showed how to splint bones in an emergency (the Boy Scouts used to teach that when I was a boy), and ONE with the title of "fix a broken bone like an orthopedic surgeon." On examination, that one showed how a surgeon would do it; not how you could do it yourself.

I did not check for videos on pulling your own teeth, but I read long ago about a man who did so and died shortly thereafter of blood poisoning.

Aaron's avatar

Would any serious expert really argue that the goons on the take in Venezuela are as ideologically committed as the Taliban? In Afghanistan, a small number of CIA teams—often literally on horseback—were able to call in B-52 strikes and tip the balance, collapsing the Taliban regime in weeks.

So the real question for the experts is this: can Venezuela be flipped “on the cheap” the same way Afghanistan was in 2001? And if a new government comes in offering something fundamentally different, would it have staying power? By most credible accounts, the opposition won something like 60–70 percent of the vote before the result was stolen.

That puts the burden on the Chavista system, not the opposition. Can an authoritarian structure built on patronage, payoffs, and intimidation really hold together once the oil revenue dries up? Especially if the money starts flowing to the very people the regime is trying to suppress?

Editor, Fabius Maximus website's avatar

That is a fun but false story. CIA agents with bags of cash were largely responsible for the fast “takeover” of Afghanistan. But as so many have found, you do not buy Afghanistan - you only lease it.

https://fabiusmaximus.com/2015/03/23/vicotry-in-fghanistan-guns-money-80903/

Aaron's avatar

A small number of CIA teams directed U.S. airpower which lead to the defeat of the Taliban in 2001. I'm sure that they also provided other resources to the Northern Alliance. The Northern alliance was never more than 10-15% of Afghanistan. The Taliban controlled roughly 85 to 90% or Afghanistan when they were decisively defeated as a government and conventional military in 2001. However, they were not defeated as a movement. So again, how committed are the goons in Venezuela. Do they feel they are part of a movement.

Editor, Fabius Maximus website's avatar

1/ False. US money was more powerful than US airpower.

2/ Latin American governments tend to have weak political regimes. Not helped by America’s long-term policy of destabilizing or overthrowing elected governments, preferring to cut deals with corrupt dictators.

Laura's avatar

Good point. We're not picking off the best and brightest here

Editor, Fabius Maximus website's avatar

I had thousands of discussions like this for 15 years during our occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan. The layers of lies were impenetrable. My conclusion: the government lies to us because we prefer pleasant lies to harsh truths. See 65 years of large serious lies by our high officials (it is not a complete list, and ends in 2017).

https://fabiusmaximus.com/2019/04/18/we-believe-government-lies/

Aaron's avatar
Jan 5Edited

Who paid the Taliban? Air power did not win the war, but it did provide the margin of victory by fusing precision strikes with local ground forces and intelligence. You are stating the obvious and not contradiction me.

We know that Taliban front-line units were destroyed, command posts and supply nodes collapsed, and the bombing placed an enormous psychological shock to the Taliban. Without the airpower, the Taliban would not have been driven from power.

Editor, Fabius Maximus website's avatar

Counter-factual are fun but pointless. All we know is that the support of local warlords for the Taliban collapsed with little fighting, a definitive sign of bribery in Third World wars. The Taliban itself had little armed force. This is often mentioned in factual accounts of the war. Cites:

https://fabiusmaximus.com/2015/03/23/vicotry-in-fghanistan-guns-money-80903/

As to who paid the Taliban - we did, indirectly. The CIA’s Operation Cyclone funded fundamentalist Islamic groups in Afghanistan - to fight the Soviet Union. Of course, they did not evaporate after winning. A segment of them became the Taliban, and eventually dominated the nation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

chris lemon's avatar

Who's running Afghanistan now? The US spent a Trilion dollars flipping the country from the Taliban to, the Taliban.

LM's avatar

So many assumptions…

That Venezuela can be “flipped on the cheap” like Afghanistan

That some coherent model and infrastructure of governance would emerge from said flipping

That Chavistas will simply melt away from their corrupt fiefdoms with this flipping

That “the people” will have some say in all of this

That the piddling flow of oil will completely stop

That “ideology” is the single most important factor here

That money will start flowing to the oppressed

This is a list of very bizarre assumptions.

Sharon's avatar

The invasion would make more sense if the goal was to bring in the opposition who won the vote, but Trump's already said they wouldn't do that. They aren't supporting the people who won the election by 60%. They're looking to keep the Maduro crooks in power, but replace Maduro with someone more compliant.

Afghanistan didn't stay flipped did it? The Taliban are back.

Aaron's avatar

I think they’re working off lessons learned from Iraq, specifically the decision to purge all the Baathists after the invasion. In hindsight, that turned out to be a serious mistake. You don’t rebuild a state by firing everyone who knows how it works.

After World War II, the Allies took a more pragmatic approach. If you were educated, technically competent, and wanted to work in Germany, odds are you had joined the Nazi Party at some point. Instead of blacklisting everyone, they filtered for actual war criminals and kept the rest. That’s how institutions kept functioning.

The lesson seems obvious: distinguish between ideological leadership and ordinary professionals. Total purges feel morally satisfying, but they usually make things worse.

LM's avatar

They’re not “working off lessons.” Trump doesn’t do “lessons.” They literally have no plan and don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. You’re just making stuff up. Not sure why.

Aaron's avatar

They say they are. Maybe you missed Rubio of the talk show circuit. I think I heard him communicate this idea.

I think the plan is to put their thumb on the scale to return liberty and also democracy and to undo the socialist repressive regime using oil revenue as leverage. That is at least 12% of a plan.

LM's avatar

Rubio may have had a thought or heeded a lesson in his day, but trump has had neither. Rubio is definitely not in charge.

The most important purge happened already: all the oil expertise left over the last 30 years.

You keep repeating this nonsense about “ideology” like it’s important. What you mean is whether officials are corrupt or incompetent. Most of them are.

Danny's avatar

Trump's attack on Venezuela is Trump's answer to affordability and has nothing to do with the who or what type of government runs Venezuela.

That is Trump's actions have nothing to do with changing "the Chavista authoritarian structure" of Venezuela. In fact, authoritarian regimes in small countries are preferable by authoritarians like Trump in large countries because they are easier to control than a messy democracy. That is far from changing Venezuela, Trump wants to control it and keeping an authoritarian in power as his puppet is the easiest way.

What Trump controlling Venezuela oil will do in the short term however is bring down the price of gas for American consumers. That is we should no expect that for calendar year 2026, Americans will pay lower costs at the pump than in any year since Bush invaded Iraq.

Ignoring morality, this is Donald Trump's answer to "AFFORDABILITY".

That is Trump thinks, and who knows he may be right, if he brings gas prices down to $2.00 or less a gallon, that will result in Republicans holding both houses of the legislature in November. This is the short or short run answer to Trump's actions. It is also true that Trump gets to thump his chest at capturing and imprisoning a foreign leader who gave Trump the finger.

But to gas prices, the price of a barrel of oil is mostly speculation. That is the actual cost of extracting the oil is less than $5.00 a barrel.

I am seeing several comparisons with the invasion of Iraq, which also was only for oil, but in that case it was so Bush could cause an increase in the price of oil by taking out person who had been undercutting all attempts to set a benchmark price. That is Bush, whose father when VP actually went to Saudi Arabia and convinced it to cutback production to cause Americans to pay higher gas prices because that was good for the Bush family, invaded Iraq to allow oil companies to get control of the price of oil and overcharge the American consumer.

In the case of Venezuela, in the short term this will actually cause the price of oil to fall by removing uncertainty in the supply chain by America controlling the largest untapped oil supply in the world. That is even though increased production will take years, cost the American taxpayer trillions and have all the profits go to oil companies and executives chummy with Trump, by removing uncertainty in the short term, oil prices and therefore gas prices will fall.

The belief by Trump that he can hold power by bringing down the price of gas in the short term is the reason why America has invaded Venezuela.

robert's avatar

the State Dept 'experts' frame foreign policy according to the usual notion of US interests. Do your experts routinely abide by or even consider international law? What does the history of US post WW2 foreign policy say about this?

George Patterson's avatar

Representative Jim Himes (D-CT) who as ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee is a member of the Gang of Eight, told CBS’s Margaret Brennan this morning that Trump’s Venezuelan adventure would not go well: “We’re in the euphoria period of…acknowledging across the board that Maduro was a bad guy and that our military is absolutely incredible. This is exactly the euphoria we felt in 2002 when our military took down the Taliban in Afghanistan in 2003, when our military took out Saddam Hussein, and in 2011, when we helped remove Muammar Gaddafi from power in Libya. These were very, very bad people, by the way, much, much worse than Maduro and Venezuela, which was never a significant national security threat to the United States. But we’re in that euphoria phase. And what we learned the day after the euphoria phase is that it’s an awful lot easier to break a country than it is to actually do what the president promised to do, which is to run it…. [L]et’s let my Republican colleagues enjoy their day of euphoria, but they’re going to wake up tomorrow morning knowing what? My God, there is no plan here any more than there was in Afghanistan, Iraq, or in Libya.”

James Moseley's avatar

It baffles me how unethical or incompetent the press has been about this. Every article is written on the presumption that we now run Venezuela and control their oil. Even the critics are just questioning when we will “return” Venezuela to the Venezuelans. With zero presence in the country, we proclaim that we own it. Reality is dead.

Mark D Olson's avatar

I agree. So it is with the Russia Ukraine peace negotiations. The US has absolutely no business in being involved with these negotiations. Trump has destroyed any credibility that the US has ever had. It's obvious that trump has no interest in helping Ukraine or Europe. It appears that he is only looking to skim off the top of what Russia gains, just like Venezuela.

Laura's avatar
Jan 5Edited

Putin mightily overestimated "Russian greatness" when he invaded Ukraine

NSAlito's avatar

Now he has to deal with "kinetic sanctions" on his oil&gas infrastructure. Ukrainian drones and missiles are putting a dent in infrastructure Russia thought was out of range.

We might be able to help by putting Hegseth in charge...of the Russian military.

Laura's avatar

Haha … awesome suggestion. I’ll take Zelensky over this band of American idiots any day.

Susannah's avatar

Either media "reporters" have been constrained by their editors to follow "the party line" until further notice, or they are lazy or too young or too naive to look back at a little U.S. history and recognize this Trump caper for what it is. Sad day when the clear-sighted observers are all on the outside shaking our heads at yet another version of "sanewashing" by those who have important legacy and broadcast media platforms.

James Moseley's avatar

You’re so right. The media has been taken over by Ellis, Bezos and other tech bros. I literally get better news by going onto a few trusted TikTok channels.

Robin D's avatar

We have to go international. Like "The Guardian".

matclone's avatar

I'm sick of hearing media references to "narco-terrorism--as if that's a thing.

George Hicks's avatar

Amen to that. And everything now is a national emergency. Those phrases are right up there with Putin's "special military operation" in Ukraine and Navalny's demise as a result of "sudden death syndrome." This corruption of common sense outdoes Orwell, and our press is inadequate to the task of confronting it.

chris lemon's avatar

George Orwell would be horrified at how prescient he was.

Rustbelter's avatar

Agree it's annoying and that the people using the label are scaremongering, but technically the term exists because FARC in Colombia started out as Marxist-Leninist guerilla movement and only became a drug cartel later on. The Taliban was similar with the opium trade.

NSAlito's avatar

I would call the *domestic* operations of gangs in many countries "narco-terrorism". They pretty much take over towns and threaten state and national leaders with terrorist attacks. I'm not visiting Michoacán, for example, any time soon.

chris lemon's avatar

On top of that, it takes a long time to plan an operation like the Maduro snatch, many months. Which means that this stunt has been in the works since very shortly after Trump took office. Why? Who came up with this plan? The press needs to start "following the money" on this. The "drug runner" argument is transparently false, so something else is going on.

leave my name off's avatar

Matt Stoller on his Substack today summarizes how Wall Street has been winning & even in NYT, there was an article about Jamie Diamond & JP Morgan doing gangbusters.

Nevoustrumpezpas's avatar

What does that even mean? Financiers "doing gangbusters."

Rustbelter's avatar

The stock market is currently blasting up to new highs on a wave of faux imperialist triumph. 🙄

robert's avatar

aside from 'press mendacity or incompetence' the MSM is doing very little genuine investigative reporting -surely even Americans see this?

MSM is not politically or financially independent. Its largely though not entirely guided by the interests of its owners and their clients. And thats why educated, informed comment by PK etc is so valuable.

George Patterson's avatar

Nothing in the New York Times says this. Headlines - "A Test for Venezuela's New Leader: Solidifying Power but Pleasing Trump." - "Reviving Venezuela's Flow of Oil Would Not Be Easy or Cheap." - "Sanctioned Oil Tankers Flee Venezuela in Defiance of U.S. Blockade." Opinions - "Trump is Unleashing Forces Beyond His Control." - "The Danger of Trump's Flamboyant Violence in Venezuela." - "Who Wins From Trump's Venezuela Oil Gambit; Not Regular Americans."

George Patterson's avatar

The opinion article by David French ("Trump is Unleashing Forces Beyond His Control.") is excellent.

Peter's avatar

This is going to end very badly...for Rubio, who will be the scapegoat when it all goes to hell. We can't yet fully measure how badly it will end for the rest of us but I'd expect that we will find ourselves ostracized by the rest of the world with Americans unwelcome everywhere and overseas business activities severely curtailed. Maybe, on the bright side, Europeans and others will stop buying weapons from American war profiteers.

Carolyn Herz's avatar

Rubio is a major driver of this action. If Trump throws him under the bus, he will not be a scapegoat.

Peter's avatar

Rubio is an idiot, blinded by his hatred of the Cuban government, you know the one his family did not flee (they left years before Castro took over). The situation in Venezuela is going to turn to shit sooner rather than later and he will be blamed. And if he talks Trump into attacking Cuba as well, he'd better start looking for a place to hide from the fallout.

Natalie Baker's avatar

Agreed and lest we forget, attacking Cuba didn't go well the first time. Recalling David Shup, Commandant of the Marine Corps (1960-63), whose opposition to Cuban missile crisis / Bay of Pigs and by extension, VietNam said, "if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar-crooked fingers out of the business of these nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own."

Peter's avatar
Jan 5Edited

Yes, we have conveniently scrubbed our history books of the fact that both Fidel and Ho Chi Minh came to the US first for help in ousting Battista and the French. In fact Ho was led to believe that his actions against the Japanese would be rewarded with independence, but American fear of DeGaulle overrode that promise. And when we turned them down they went to the Russians and the Chinese for support.

Robot Bender's avatar

See: General Smedley Butler.

parigot1950's avatar

I think we (EU an other Europeans) should stop buying US goods and services NOW (in as much as we can do without, which is more than one think...).

Peter's avatar

As an American I would support that 100%. Having lived in Europe I agree, there is plenty of high quality stuff available that is not of American origin.

parigot1950's avatar

I would add that I have, over the years, bought a lot in the US (family connections, frequent visits...), US-born spouse, etc...We have many dear US friends (no MAGA fans, strangely...).

tubbyclayton's avatar

Yes. I've deleted Amazon, Facebook etc, moved to Linux, and found European alternatives for almost everything. That said, it's not that easy, unless you actually enjoy the challenge of finding alternatives as I do.

Unfortunately, outside of SW and technology people are addicted to, there's surprisingly relatively little that the US exports that consumers can directly stop buying. Most of what the US exports is in business services or commodities. It's hard to put pressures on companies not to rely on those things when it's entirely invisible to you.

parigot1950's avatar

Mondelez products, Johnson & Johnson, bourbon, KFC, McDonald, Starbucks, Levi's, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Nike...

I have not used Amazon in more than ten years. I ditched Norton (use Proton for VPN). I should look into Linux but not being technologicallt proficient (age...) it will not be easy. No presence on social networks. There is more to be done...

parigot1950's avatar

Uber, AirBnB, Tesla...

Rosie Brocklehurst's avatar

It could end badly but will it end and where and when? I think ostracising is hardly the visible position of the European leaders who are all bowing their heads in obeisance to the lord of an impunity soaked government. What price could Trump pay ultimately?

Peter's avatar

Trump will end his life like Kissinger, unable to travel anywhere outside the US for fear of arrest. Oh, I guess the Saudis will welcome him and maybe Russia, but nowhere else. Unlike Kissinger, Trump won't care unless the Brits threaten arrest if he tries to visit Scotland for golf.

Sharon's avatar

Trump has Mar a Lago. He doesn't care about travelling.

George Patterson's avatar

I doubt that he'll live that long. https://youtu.be/YsJ4VNhiUWw

Clym Yeobright's avatar

I think it rhymes with “plague”. Just guessing.

Sharon's avatar

I think George W Bush has remorse for Iraq. He's spent a lot of time painting dead soldiers.

Before Trump, I didn't think we could get much worse than Bush. But there is a decency in him that's completely lacking in Trump and MAGA.

Rainer Dynszis's avatar

"I think George W Bush has remorse for Iraq."

I have no opinion on that.

My point was that Dubya was not and never will stand trial in The Hague for his war crimes. And if this won't happen to him, why would it happen to DT?

Sharon's avatar

Of course, DT is immune. If nothing else, he'd be declared incompetent because of age and dementia.

Clym Yeobright's avatar

Li’l Marco will become, IMO, the Bolton of this term, daily berated as a bad man not up to the simple tasks foolishly allotted to him. Even if he continues, in effect, to castigate those who supported him in 2016 and would have cost us the greatest leader since Alexander the Great … who, by the way, may not have been all that great, people are saying …

Paul Olmsted's avatar

Peter ,

Europeans and others may stop buying US debt instruments in retaliation for tossing them under the bus while seeking hegemony in

South America.

Robot Bender's avatar

World wars have started over less. Even if Xi, Putin, and Trump succeed in partitioning the world, they'll end up fighting among themselves.

Anne H's avatar

Already started.

Kate Oravec's avatar

I look forward to Rubio being charged along with all of these criminals for treason and murder.

Chenda's avatar

With Denmark's permission Britain and France should conduct a large scale military training exercise in Greenland, and consider stationing troops there. This would send a clear message that they are serious about protecting Greenland from any aggression by Trump.

Anthony O Neill's avatar

Hi Chenda… your musing isn’t in fact so far from fact. If you can access the BBC website, search for the ‘PM’ programme for today, Monday 05 January, presented by Evan Davis, and listen to the comments from a Danish politician, Henrik Dahl, in response to Trump’s ‘just saying’ hypothetical ‘we must have Greenland’ comments. Europeans are (late, but better late than never) beginning to take the Trump Administrations statements as real, existential, threats and from a dangerous,but surely-he-can’t-do-that?!, US President. Mette Fredriksson’s (Danish Prime Minister) comment sums it up: she declares to take President Trump’s threats towards Danish and Greenlandic sovereignty seriously, and she replies in kind to the US Administration. Sorry, if you know all of this already and I’m over-doing it. But Trump’s mind seems to dismiss real-world politics. There will be terrible consequences for any US muscling in to Greenland, but does the Administration give any credence or even forward planning to this?

Yours, Anthony (UK).

Chenda's avatar

Thanks Anthony, that's interesting I will check out.

Anthony O Neill's avatar

Ps Henrik Dahl’s comments come at about 40 minutes in to the programme.

Peter Chapin's avatar

What happens if Trump attacks Greenland? Will the rest of NATO rise to protect it, as according to treaty?

Anthony O Neill's avatar

Hi Peter. If you’re curious, yes, Europeans are beginning to realise that Trump is often genuine in his comments. I live in the UK, a country burdened by a communal wish for a ‘special relationship’ with the US, which has nevertheless remained a bit blind to Dean Acheson’s warning that Britain ‘had lost an empire, but had not yet found a role’. I call it a ‘burden’ in the context of our contemporary reality. Trump couldn’t give a fig for anything (that includes the US it seems) beyond his immediate gratification, but other governments are obliged to pay respect to his office and pick up the pieces from his wrecking-yard administration. The contemporary reality for NATO is that it is an alliance which is dependent on the US’ participation, and the US Government gives ambiguous messaging about its intentions towards the Alliance’s member states. If you are genuinely curious, look at press releases from the Danish Prime Minister on this matter. She is clear that any muscling-in by the US will break the NATO Alliance, and other NATO members are crafting their own diplomatic responses to convey the same message. I agree with the argument that the US’ power is much greater when it is in alliance, than standing on its own, and that Trump’s Administration’s actions may rupture the NATO Alliance. Yours, Anthony.

Chenda's avatar

Britain and France have the capability of deterring military action. They both have nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers, and a strong incentive to do. The loss of Greenland could easily undermine their control of places like the Falkland Islands and French Polynesia. France has previously offered to station troops there.

Frances's avatar

We made this deal signaling both Russia & China it's open door to invasions on sovereign countries. The frail reason of oil , must be reconsidered, sour diesel is very hard to refine. And at extreme environmental consequences i.e high source for sulpher leading to acid rain. Nothing changed for the people of Venezuela the same government administration securing Maduro as President remains in the trenches. It's fool hardy to speak of narcoterrorism, after Honduras Hernandez pardon. Congress/Senate have abandoned their role and it's malpractice.

Stephen Burg's avatar

You can give a moron immense power. But he will never be anything but a moron. That is what this looks like to me.

Clym Yeobright's avatar

“I can take an ass on all my campaigns for twenty years, and at the end of twenty years, he’s still an ass.” - Napoleon

Les Peters's avatar

I highlighted this quote and did an internet search for more information. Everything the search returned on asses involved Trump. Too funny.

Clym Yeobright's avatar

I think I read it in a Classics Illustrated comic book 65 or 70 years ago, so you know it must be true

Madeleine's avatar

In 2019, Fiona Hill said there was a “strange deal” (loosely quoting here) where Trump “got” Venezuela if he let Putin “have” Ukraine.

Rainer Dynszis's avatar

Thank you for the pointer.

The closest thing to such a statement that I could find was in Fiona Hill's deposition on October 14, 2019 in Washington, DC, downloadable from Politico, cf.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/08/trump-impeachment-fiona-hill-testimony-released-067711

In this deposition Fiona Hill says that "the Russians at this particular juncture were signaling very strongly that they wanted to somehow make some very strange swap arrangement between Venezuela and Ukraine."

I cannot find any statement of Ms Hill where she asserts that Trump accepted such a proposal. Which does not mean that he didn't, though.

Derelict's avatar

It's just another tsunami of stupid from the stupidest administration in American history. Snatch Maduro and announce that Maduro's VP is eager to be your puppet . . . without having done any of the groundwork to make sure that's actually the case. Then have your Secretary of State announce that you're NOT going to be running Venezuela at the exact same time Trump is on TV saying we ARE going to be running Venezuela--that we are, in fact, running the country RIGHT NOW!

And make sure you reject the logical leader because she accepted the Nobel Peace Prize that Trump KNOWS belongs to him. And he will, BY GOD, keep bombing, invading, kidnapping, and killing until he gets that Peace Prize!

I hate these people.

Rustbelter's avatar

Notice that Trump called Machado "very nice but not respected." Pure sexism. In fact she is extremely popular and known as Venezuela's "Iron Lady."

Vijaya Venkatesan's avatar

Machado is not the 'logical leader'. That would be Gonzalez who actually won the most recent presidential election only for Maduro to steal it. Did you hear the words 'fresh elections' or 'democracy' even once in all of Rubio's and Trump's blether?

Rustbelter's avatar

Gonzalez was only running in Machado's place because she had been banned by Maduro from the ballot. So there's a gray area there where either one could be considered legit.

Rainer Dynszis's avatar

"make sure you reject the logical leader because she accepted the Nobel Peace Prize that Trump KNOWS belongs to him."

I suspect that the Nobel Peace Prize is only one of her unforgivable sins. That woman has a real education.

Clym Yeobright's avatar

Machado will NEVER win the FIFA peace prize. On the other hand, with a little luck and if she is ‘judicious’ (trump’s new go-to adjective?) Rodriguez may be the front-runner for both prizes this year

Laura's avatar

Do the Venezuelans have any say in this? They will be lorded over by arrogant morons who despise brown people and women, and it’s not working out so well for us gringos up here.

Krispy's avatar

Well that’s the open question. I think the kabuki theater between Rodriguez and dt is weird in that he’s publicly threatened her yet giving her an invitation to stay on. Perhaps her deal is not so good…

Robot Bender's avatar

"Pray I dont alter it (our deal) further."

Darth Vader

Michael Sanders's avatar

My dog is getting very tired of wagging. If this wasn’t so tragic, it would be nothing more than another distraction.

Milton Deemer's avatar

But it is tragic. It is sad. It is a proverbial nail.

Teri C's avatar

Here’s a link for the younger ones since the movie, Wag the Dog, is almost 30 years old. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0120885/

(Geo)economics Talks's avatar

For Venezuela it was the oil, for Greenland it is the rare earth. Europeans should be very careful about Trump’s ambitions on Greenland

Anthony O Neill's avatar

I think the Europeans (ie me and my lot) are waking up at last. Mette Fredriksson (Danish Prime Minister) has drawn a metaphoric line in the sand, in regard to US’ interest in Greenland. Another Danish politician, Henrik Dahl, has given a more nuanced comment to the BBC radio journalist, Evan Davies, on today’s (05 January) PM (news) programme. It is at approximately 40 minutes into the programme, should you be curious. It’s not easy to ‘unite’ Europeans (it’s mostly an oxymoron, isn’t it?), but the Scandinavians, the Baltics, Poland and (ever so cautiously, ‘don’t wake up the cranky US President’) the UK are coming together. We (Europeans) lack real power (armies/ weapons/ strategic unity), but we (Europeans, again) are finally realising that ‘the rules-based order) is over. Anthony.

Robot Bender's avatar

They aren't going to stop at Venezuela. I think Colombia and Guyana are next. The forces are already in place.

Erik Bruun's avatar

In other words, he is demented.

This is a Marco Rubio dream come true. The US can now cut off oil to Cuba, weakening the regime there, a giant step toward his ultimate goal.

Venezuelan oil did nothing but bring harm to Venezuela, now it's our turn to feel those effects.

Derelict's avatar

I have a feeling that Putin will make sure Cuba gets all the oil it needs. Indeed, that Venezuelan tanker the U.S. Coast Guard was trying to capture was reflagged by Putin to make it a Russian vessel. (Also worth noting that Putin condemned Trump's adventure.)

Erik Bruun's avatar

Maybe. You make a good point, but Putin would likely abandon Cuba if Trump walks away entirely from Ukraine.

Derelict's avatar

Both Venezuela and Cuba are Russian allies. Supposedly Trump and Putin made a deal that Trump could take Venezuela in exchange for ceasing support for Ukraine. But Trump couldn't pull that off because U.S. domestic support for Ukraine is overwhelming.

But this is President Deals we're talking about, so even though he completely failed on his end of the bargain, he expected Putin to uphold HIS end of it and allow Venezuela to fall.

Erik Bruun's avatar

We are all conspiracy theorists in 2026, especially when it comes to shadowy deals and betrayals in the bent corners of the Oval Office.

Teri C's avatar

Wondering if he’s looking for a cut from the drug cartels, too. No particular reason except the total absence of decency, and the unmitigated greed.

Joan Semple's avatar

I think not many realize the dire situation already in Cuba. Venezuelan oil was already being selectively withheld given the current challenges with Venezuela’s oil infrastructure. What little that was getting through to Cuba was not nearly enough. Into this melting pot of energy scarcity, basic needs (electricity, running water, food, healthcare, personal safety) of regular Cuban citizens have simply not been met for the past 5+ years. And into this void came drugs; crystal meth, opioids etc. further escalating violent crime, which, up until then, had been almost unheard of. It has been particularly stark since Covid. So believe it or not, Trump is actually right about Cuba being ready to fall. From what I’ve been told by Cuban nationals living/working in Grand Cayman, this is the sad truth for their once beautiful homeland.

Derelict's avatar

Unfortunately, I don't see the US doing anything to make life better for Cubans no matter what happens.

LM Myers's avatar

Yes this is the direction we should be looking, I think. Venezuela's shadow oil fleet is supported by Iran, Russia, and maybe China.

Gramsci's avatar

Trump Hotel and Casino coming to Cuba soon!

Robot Bender's avatar

Batista on steroids.

Greg Carrott's avatar

How many of those polled who support Trump’s actions can correctly locate Venezuela on a map? I doubt it is even one half. Unfortunately, the bottom half of our high school classes now make policy.

Anthony O Neill's avatar

Thanks Gregg. Amidst the nastiness and horrible news, your metaphor of the bottom half of class running the US Government makes me smile 😂. Humour (in taking someone down) is always appreciated. Anthony

Carol C's avatar

I think they support it, but Peter Thiel and his ilk are behind it.

Krispy's avatar

That might be our best bet: stop the dumbing down of America

Carol C's avatar

Awfully slow work, but necessary.

Robert Jaffee's avatar

“Anyway, the core of Trump’s fantasy involves imagining that he really is the character he played on The Apprentice, a master of the Art of the Deal.”

Brilliant Professor. That said, Trump and Putin are two peas in a pod: despicable and vicious mob bosses, who believe “to the victor goes the spoils.”

And this isn’t a one off. This was the master plan prior to the election. As well as implementing Project 2025 domestically, his vision of a New World Order closely resembles Putin’s and Xi: Three Spheres of Influence.

Moreover, Trump while Trump focuses on the America’s; abandoning our allies in Europe and Asia, we will essentially give a green light to China in regard to Taiwan.

Additionally, let’s not forget, by Trump moving our most advanced Aircraft Carrier Group (USS Ford) to the Caribbean, we left our European allies vulnerable to Putin’s aggression. It not only protected US interests in the region, it was collecting and disseminating and transferring critical data from the war with Ukraine to Ukraine and our European allies.

How this ends, no one knows, but this was not a mistake, it was planned. Every policy move from tariffs to his transactional policies for arm g our allies throughout the world, feeds into this theory.

Furthermore, I’d posit that regardless of what Trump says, he didn’t dismiss María Corina Machado over the Noble, this was always the endgame. In fact, I’d argue further that this isn’t even Trump’s war, it’s the petroleum lobby, and in the end, the US will be paying for the rebuilding of Venezuela’s infrastructure.

I’m not suggesting this plan would work. According to Trump’s released National Security Strategy, they intend to try to keep oil at around $50 per barrel; an impossible task, since all of Venezuela’s oil reserves is dirty crude; more expensive to extract, and refine.

Lastly, while the US was able to take down Maduro with no fatalities and just a few minor casualties, Venezuela’s VP, Delcy Rodríguez, was apparently in Moscow at the time. Any chance this invasion was coordinated with Russia? I’m not suggesting Rodriguez was involved, but this has all the making of a plot. In my humble opinion.

Chenda's avatar

It's certainly suspicious how smoothly the mission went, it's not inconceivable it was a partly an inside job.

Robot Bender's avatar

They did say the CIA was there.

Dejah's avatar

Somehow those shots that weren't being fired killed 80 people.

Robert Jaffee's avatar

Not in the compound where they captured Maduro. People died in the bombs being dropped in cities.

Robert Jaffee's avatar

You’re right, I stand corrected. I was sourcing from a newsletter I read yesterday morning wirh dated info. My sincere apologies, I should have said no fatalities on the US side.

Frau Katze's avatar

It’s unclear if she was actually in Russia at the time. There were conflicting reports.

Robert Jaffee's avatar

Fair enough, but regardless of whether she was there or not, the responses from Moscow and Beijing were tepid at best.

It reminds me of the Iranian raid, Russia didn’t protect their proxies in the region. The question is why? It seems like the outcome was known in advance.

Frau Katze's avatar

Russia and China are naturally on board because the “Donroe Doctrine” implicitly means they have similar powers in their “hemispheres”.

Carol C's avatar

The Donroe Doctrine trades US global power and influence for dominance in a hemisphere, as HCR pointed out.

The oil-plundering aspect isn’t as cool as Trump makes it out to be. There are lots of unused oil leases in our country because the world oil price is too low for new drilling to be profitable for the oil companies.

Donnie may not have noticed, but renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels.

Frau Katze's avatar

Trump despises renewables. He’s a fool, as usual.

Krispy's avatar

We’ve been played

Carol C's avatar

There is speculation that Nobel winner Machado had the U.S. help her to get to Norway to receive her prize, making her absent from Venezuela at the time of Maduro’s removal by U.S. forces. Having her out of the way suits Trump.

Poor woman, she dedicated her Peace Prize to him. What it says about either of them, I don’t know.

Robert Jaffee's avatar

True, but Machado did it specifically because she was told Trump would be upset. She’s trying to get her country back; however, now’s she’s learned that making a deal with the devil doesn’t make you safe, it makes you a target….:)

Karel Tripp's avatar

So what you are saying is he has just bought a ‘pig in a poke’

Karel Tripp's avatar

No disrespect intended……..

Robert Jaffee's avatar

None taken, great response…:)